>> THIS WEEK THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION ESCALATEDS IT WAR WITH HARVARD, CUTTING ANOTHER $450 MILLION IN GRANTS TO THE PRESTIGIOUS UNIVERSITY.

THAT IS ON TOP OF THE $2.2 BILLION ALREADY FROZEN.

IT IS PART OF A GROWING POLITICAL PRESSURE ON HIGHER EDUCATION.

SHE TELLS US WHY SHE HAS TAKEN THE COURSE ONLINE NOW, CREATING THE RESISTANCE SUMMER SCHOOL.

IT COVERS HOW SOME EDUCATORS ARE REIMAGINING THE FUTURE OF HIGHER EDUCATION.

>> THANKS.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

>> YOU ARE AN AWARD-WINNING COLUMNIST.

"WASHINGTON POST" GLOBAL OPINIONS EDITOR.

CREATED AN ONLINE COURSE AFTER COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY DECLINED.

WE WILL TALK ABOUT THAT.

DECLINED TO REPEAT A COURSE YOU TAUGHT IN THE SPRING OF 2024.

YOU SAID YOU NEVER HAD A COURSE LIKE THAT YOURSELF WHEN YOU WERE IN GRAD SCHOOL.

TELL ME ABOUT THE COURSE.

>> I DECIDED TO CREATE A COURSE CALLED RACE JOURNALISM.

JOURNALISM OR MEDIA AND INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS.

LOOKING AT THE INTERSECTION OF RACE AND HOW RACE IS CONSTRUCTED AND HOW IDENTITY IS CONSTRUCTED AND HOW WE SEE THE WORLD AND SEE OURSELVES.

I AM SAYING THIS IS A PROCESS IN JOURNALISM, IN HOLLYWOOD, THE STORIES THAT WE TELL ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE DRIVES AND REINFORCES POLICY.

WHETHER IT IS PUBLIC HEALTH OR REFUGEES OR EVEN GOING TO WAR.

I THINK THAT FOR ME AS SOMEONE THAT WORKS IN THE MEDIA AND HAS AN EXPERIENCE IN LIVING AND WORKING AND REPORTING FROM ALL AROUND THE WORLD.

IT WAS REALLY AN OPPORTUNITY TO BRING ALL OF THAT TOGETHER AND, YOU KNOW, SADLY THERE IS NOT A WHOLE LOT OF BLACK PEOPLE, NON-WHITE PEOPLE THAT ARE ALLOWED TO BE EXPERTS ON THE WORLD.

>> THE COURSE WAS FULLY SUBSCRIBED, YOU KNOW WHEN YOU HAD FOUND OUT IT WOULD NOT BE RENEWED WHAT DID THEY SAY TO YOU?

>> I WAS TOLD THE DEAN WOULD NOT BE RENEWING MY FUNDING.

>> WERE YOU GIVEN A REASON?

>> NOT MUCH, NO.

I WOULD STILL LIKE TO KNOW WHAT THE DECISION WAS ABOUT.

I STILL DON'T HAVE CLARITY ON THAT.

IT WAS HEARTBREAKING AND FRUSTRATING.

I WAS CRUSHED.

THE DREAM TO TEACH AND THE CHANCE TO GIVE BACK.

BUT THERE WERE ALREADY STUDENTS APPROACHING ME FROM THE PREVIOUS YEAR SAYING THEY WERE LOOKING FORWARD TO THE COURSE.

MY HEART WAS BREAKING FOR STUDENTS WHO, AGAIN, SAID THEY FELT LIKE THEY NEEDED THIS COURSE TO BE A PART OF THEIR EDUCATION, AND I WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO GIVE IT TO THEM.

>> YOU WROTE ABOUT THIS IN ANNOUNCING THE ASSISTED SUMMER SCHOOL.

YOU THOUGHT ACTUALLY I AM GOING TO -- I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE RIGHT WORD IS.

OPEN SOURCE OR OPEN TO THE PUBLIC.

OPEN TO ANYBODY THAT WANTED TO PARTICIPATE.

IT IS NOT FREE, BUT IT IS AVAILABLE FOR PEOPLE.

YOU HAD AN INTERESTING FUNDING MODEL.

YOU OFFERED PEOPLE A SLIDING SCALE.

THE COURSE SOLD OUT IN 48 HOURS.

>> YEAH.

>> AS I UNDERSTAND IT FROM THE SITE YOU HAD 500 SLOTS FOR THE COURSE.

YOU GOT AWAIT ING LIST OF 600 PEOPLE?

>> 2,000 NOW.

>> I AM GUESSING A LITTLE BIT POPULAR.

>> YEAH.

>> YOU SAID YOU WERE CRUSHED WHEN THE COURSE WOULDN'T BE RENEWED AT COLUMBIA.

YOU SAID I AM GOING TO MAKE IT AVAILABLE BEYOND THIS ENVIRONMENT.

WHAT GAVE YOU THE IDEA?

>> WATCHING WHAT HAS BEEN HAPPENING POLITICALLY.

WATCHING WHAT IS HAPPENING AT COLUMBIA'S CAMPUS, IN TERMS OF TRUMP'S DEMANDS OVER DEI AND OVER, YOU KNOW, PARTICULARLY I THINK FOR ME SEEING COLUMBIA'S WILLINGNESS TO PUT THE DEPARTMENTS OF AFRICAN STUDIES AND SOUTH ASIAN STUDIES UNDER A SPECIAL RECEIVERSHIP MADE ME THINK THAT I HAVE THIS COURSE AND WORK AND LABOR I HAVE DONE FOR COLUMBIA AND WHY SHOULD IT BE HELD HOSTAGE BY AN INSTITUTION THAT IS CAVING ONES IT OWN VALUES ON EDUCATION.

I FELT LIKE I NEEDED TO LIBERATE MY WORK, AND AS A PERSON SEEING WHAT IS HAPPENING WITH WHAT I WILL ARGUE IS SEGREGATION, TEACHING ABOUT RACE AND HISTORY.

I KNEW WHAT I WAS TEACHING ABOUT WAS GOING TO BE POSSIBLY TARGETED.

I JUST WANTED TO FREE AT LEAST MYSELF AND THAT SUBJECT MATTER, AND TO AN EXTENT THE STUDENTS FROM INSTITUTIONAL COWARDICE, RIGHT.

I FEEL POWERLESS SOMETIMES WATCHING THE NEWS.

FEELING ANGRY THAT INSTITUTIONS WERE CAVING.

WHAT SKILLS DO I HAVE?

I HAVE A COURSE AND SYLLABUS.

LET ME DUST IT OFF AND BRING IT OUT OF THE CLOSET AND SEE IF ANYONE WANTS TO HAVE IT.

>> COLUMBIA IS NOT ACKNOWLEDGING THEY ARE SEEDING TO THAT, BUT MORE THAN 50 UNIVERSITIES ARE BEING INVESTIGATED BY THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION AS PART OF THEIR EXPLICIT CAMPAIGN AGAINST DEI, DIVERSITY E EQUITY AND INCLUSION STRATEGIES.

THEIR ARGUMENT IS THAT UNIVERSITIES IN GENERAL AND COLUMBIA IN PARTICULAR DID NOT DO ENOUGH TO PROTECT STUDENTS FROM THE ANTI-SEMITIC OVERTONE OF THE PRO-PALESTINIAN PROTESTS IN THAT SPRING.

IN MARCH 2025 THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION DEMANDED COLUMBIA PLACE MIDDLE EASTERN, SOUTH ASIAN AND AFRICAN DEPARTMENTS UNDER -- FOR A MINIMUM OF FIVE YEARS.

COLUMBIA RESPONDED ON MARCH 21st.

THEY DIDN'T REFER TO THE RECEIVERSHIP BUT APPOINTED A NEW SENIOR ADMINISTRATOR TO ENSURE PROGRAMS ARE BALANCED.

I SAY ALL OF THAT TO SAY DO YOU SEE WHAT HAPPENED TO YOUR CLASS PER SE AS PART OF THAT?

DO YOU THINK THAT IT WAS RELATED TO THAT?

>> WHAT THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION IS DOING WITH COLLEGES AND COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY, PERSONALLY I WOULD ARGUE WOULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED IF THESE COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES AND CORPORATIONS WERE SERIOUS ABOUT THEIR COMMITMENTS TO DIVERSITY.

SINCE THE GEORGE FLOYD MURDER AND BLACK LIVES MATTER PROTESTS WE SAW SO MUCH ENERGY AND OPPORTUNITY AND PROMISES ABOUT DIVERSITY AND RECTIFYING THE WRONGS OF THE PAST.

FAST FORWARD TO FIVE YEARS LATER, WE HAVE SEEN HOW OKAY, THESE INSTITUTIONS WERE LIKE THEIR RACIAL JUSTICE SUMMER WAS OVER AND GOING BACK TO THE STATUS QUO.

TRUMP TARGETING THESE SO-CALLED WOKE PROGRAMS.

WHETHER IT IS HOLLYWOOD, JOURNALISM.

WE SAW A LOT OF THE PROMISES BE ROLLED BACK AND PULLED BACK.

YOU KNOW, MY COURSE WAS CANCELLED LAST YEAR BEFORE TRUMP TOOK OFFICE.

I DEFINITELY SEE IT AS THERE IS ALREADY A NON-COMMITMENT.

I THINK IT FEELS PAINFULLY EVIDENT THAT THE COMMITMENTS TO DIVERSITY WERE NOT MUCH MORE THAN BRANDING AND MARKETING TO CAPTURE, YOU KNOW, A MOMENT IN THE POST-GEORGE FLOYD ERA.

>> AS YOU WOULD IMAGINE, BECAUSE WE ARE JOURNALISTS, CALLED COLUMBIA TO GET THEIR TAKE ON YOUR PERSPECTIVE ON WHAT HAPPENED TO YOUR CLASS.

THEY SENT US A STATEMENT.

IT SAYS KAREN TAUGHT AS AN ADJUNCT PROFESSOR DURING THE SPRING 2024 PROFESSOR AND WAS FUNDED AND COMMISSIONED FOR THAT TERM AND WAS INVITED TO RETURN TO TEACH THE SAME COURSE IN THE SPRING OF 2025 SEMESTER BUT SHE DECLINED.

SHE HAS BEEN OFFERED THE SAME OPPORTUNITY TO TEACH THE SAME COURSE IN 2026 AT COLUMBIA WHICH SHE HASN'T YET ACCEPTED AND SAID IT WAS A PRIVILEGE TO HAVE HER TEACH OUR STUDENTS.

THEY ARE SAYING THEY INVITED YOU BACK.

>> I WILL START BY WORKING BACKWARDS.

THE SECOND PART OF THE STATEMENT SAID COLUMBIA INVITED ME BACK.

THOUGHTS WOULD I BE GOING TO THE JOURNALISM SCHOOL OR PLACED SOMEWHERE.

I FIND IT INTERESTING THE WORK AROUND WAS OFFERED LAST YEAR ONLY AFTER THE COURSE WENT VIRAL IN TERMS OF ME DOING THAT.

>> JUST TO CLARIFY, YOU ARE SAYING THE INVITATION TO TEACH IN THE SPRING OF 2026 WAS ONLY OFFERED AFTER YOU MADE IT CLEAR YOU WERE TEACHING THE COURSE PUBLICLY.

>> YEAH.

>> WHAT ABOUT SAYINGURE WERE INVITED BACK FOR 2025.

>> AGAIN, THE OFFER THAT CAME THROUGH NOT -- THIS HAS LITTLE TO DO WITH HAVING A VENDETTA AGAINST COLUMBIA.

COLUMBIA SHAPED ME.

I WOULD NOT BE HERE IF NOT FOR COLUMBIA.

AS A PERSON AND SOMEONE CARING ABOUT THE SUBJECT MATTER.

I WANT TO BE AS FREE AS POSSIBLE TO BE ABLE TO TEACH IN THE WAY THAT I WANT TO TEACH, AND NOT WITH THE FEAR THAT AT ANY MOMENT THE AX COULD COME AGAIN AS THE POLITICAL CLIMATES CHANGE.

>> YOU SAID THAT IN YOUR PIECE THAT I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE FUTURE WILL LOOK LIKE AFTER ALL OF THIS.

I AM BOTH GRATEFUL TO COLUMBIA FOR HOW IT SHAPED ME AND GRIEVING WHAT FEELS LIKE THE LOSS OF THE INSTITUTIONAL HOME THAT I KNEW AND LOVED.

I DO KNOW IN A MOMENT OF PROFOUND CRISIS WE CANNOT WAIT FOR ELITE PERMISSION OR INSTITUTIONAL APPROVAL TO SHARE KNOWLEDGE AND CREATE LEARNING COMMUNITIES.

SAY MORE ABOUT WHY YOU FEEL LIKE IT IS NECESSARY IN THIS MOMENT.

>> I THINK I WAS OVERCOME.

I AM STILL AT THE "WASHINGTON POST" IN THIS ELITE INSTITUTION.

IT FELT LIKE AN URGENCY OF THE MOMENT.

WHETHER IT IS BLACK OR JEWISH PROFESSORS CAST OUT BY WHITE INSTITUTIONS, AND SETTING UP THEIR OWN TEACHING MECHANISMS.

YOU KNOW WHAT, WE ARE GOING TO SET UP SCHOOLS IN APARTMENTS AROUND THE COUNTRY BECAUSE THE LEARNING DOES NOT NEED TO STOP BECAUSE THE POWERS SAY THAT IT SHOULD.

FOR ADJUNCTS THAT ARE SCRAPING BY ON A FEW THOUSAND PER COURSE, LIVING ON NO BENEFITS, NO INSTITUTIONAL PROTECTIONS AND THEN ON THE FLIP SIDE STUDENTS WHO ARE PAYING $25,000 PER SEMESTER TO BE ABLE TO ACCESS THE KNOWLEDGE.

FOR ME JUST KNOWING THE SPEED AT WHICH THESE PURGINGS ARE HAPPENING AROUND THE COUNTRY.

I FELT LIKE, OKAY, DID IT MAKE SENSE TO WAIT YOUR TURN?

>> I WANT TO PUSH FORWARD.

A LOT OF PEOPLE SAW WHAT HAPPENED AT COLUMBIA AND OTHER UNIVERSITIES.

EVEN THOSE SYMPATHETIC AND IN AGREEMENT WITH SOME OF THE MESSAGES AROUND PALESTINE AND THE WAR IN GAZA FOUND THE BEHAVIOR OF SOME OF THE PEOPLE ON CAMPUS OBJECTIONABLE.

DO YOU THINK THAT IS FAIR?

IT WAS A LEARNING LESSON IN REAL TIME FOR MY STUDENTS.

I TEACH ON MASS MEDIA REPORTING ON PROTESTS.

I SPENT TIME IN THE ENCAMPMENTS AND ON THE OUTSIDE.

NOT ONLY DID I SEE AND MY STUDENTS AS WELL.

ALL OF US TALKED ABOUT THIS.

WE WERE JEWISH, MUSLIM, CHRISTIAN.

NO MATTER HOW YOU FEEL, THE IMAGE ON THE OUTSIDE OF WHAT WAS HAPPENING AT COLUMBIA WAS WILD LIE MANIPULATED AND MISSTATED.

ONE THING THAT TOUCHED ME ABOUT THE ENCAMPMENT IS THAT I SAW THE STUDENTS THAT WERE HIGHLY SO FEST INDICATED.

THESE ARE LITTLE TOWNS ALMOST.

THEY HAD LIBRARIES.

THEY HAD FIRST AID CARE.

THEY HAD FOOD THAT WAS COMING IN.

I THINK THAT FOR ME AMIDst THE CONTROVERSIES, COLUMBIA GAVE ME A LIVING EXAMPLE OF EVEN WHAT I AM DOING RIGHT NOW.

RIGHT.

THAT DESPITE CLASHES OVER POLITICS AND DESTRUCTION THAT IT IS POSSIBLE FOR PEOPLE TO ORGANIZE AND FOR LEARNING TO STILL GO ON AND FOR PROFESSORS TO BE DONATING THEIR TIME FREELY TO THE COMMUNITY, RIGHT.

SO, TO ME IT IS LIKE THAT IS ALSO THE LESSON FROM THE PROTEST.

AND WE SAW THAT DESPITE WHAT ONE MIGHT THINK ABOUT THE CHANCE AND THE BEHAVIOR, THE LARGER QUESTION IS BRINGING IN A MILITARIZED NYPD FORCE TO OCCUPY THE CAMPUS AND CREATE IT INTO A WAR ZONE, RIGHT.

IS THAT OKAY?

BROADLY, THIS WAR WE ARE HAVING OVER TEACHING HISTORY AND BLACK PEOPLE HAVING POSITIONS OF INFLUENCE AND POWER.

I JUST FEEL LIKE I AM TRYING TO DO WHAT I SAW THERE.

THAT IS JUST GATHERING PEOPLE.

AND THAT WE WILL STILL LEARN ANYWAY.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR SPEAKING WITH US.

I WILL BE INTERESTED TO HEAR AFTER YOUR SUMMER SCHOOL HOW IT ALL TURNED OUT.

THANK YOU FOR TALKING WITH US.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.