Welcome to "American Black Journal."

I'm your host, Stephen Henderson.

My first guest is a "New York Times" bestselling author and historian.

Jemar Tisby just released a new book that highlights the inspirational stories of unsung heroes in the fight for racial justice.

It's titled "The Spirit of Justice: True Stories of Faith, Race, and Resistance."

Tisby examines key figures who resisted racism in the name of their faith, but have often been minimized or forgotten in the teaching of black history.

I spoke with him about the book and how it presents a more thorough account of the racial justice movement.

Jemar Tisby, welcome to "American Black Journal."

- Thank you for having me.

Glad to be here.

- Yeah.

So let's start with the idea of "The Spirit of Justice."

I love part of the concept here, which is the connection between black activism and liberation, ideology and the church.

- Right.

- Where, of course, so much of that activism comes from.

Tell us about the inspiration for this book.

- Well, quick story.

It was December 9th, 2017.

It was the grand opening of the Mississippi Civil Rights Museum, and I was in attendance.

Myrlie Evers-Williams spoke there.

Of course, folks will remember, she is the spouse and widow of Medgar Evers, who was assassinated in front of their home in Jackson, Mississippi.

After her public remarks, she did a smaller press conference where I was able to actually record her comments.

Somebody asked her about how the 21st Century Justice Movement compared to the Civil Rights Movement, and she said, she's seeing things now she hoped she'd never see again.

And then she said she was weary, which, of course, at 84 years old, you're entitled to be weary.

But then she said something I'll never forget, she said, "But it's something about the spirit of justice."

And she said, "It makes you determined all over again."

And that stuck with me.

The spirit of justice is what I see happening throughout the black freedom struggle over the course of centuries.

- Yeah.

And really, Evers-Williams is one of the people you feature in the book, you feature several others as well.

Let's talk about her connection to the church and how her faith moves that activism.

- Yeah, Myrlie Evers-Williams was raised in a Christian household by church mamas, basically, and aunties.

And she took that with her.

And it is really what guided her, especially in the aftermath of her husband's assassination.

She actually had suicidal ideation and she said, "Something prevented me."

And she said, "I'm sure it was God."

And then, throughout her lifetime of activism, and it's important that we remember people like Myrlie Evers-Williams, Coretta Scott King, and others as activists in their own right, not simply the spouses of activists.

So throughout her life of activism, she said she would ask God for guidance and for wisdom to help her know the right thing to do.

- Yeah, yeah.

Let talk about some of the other folks in the book.

There's a lot of people in here that, again, not everybody is familiar with or remembers as well as they should.

- That's right.

I profile over 50 different figures of black history, how faith motivated them toward activism.

One of my favorite ones is more contemporary, and it's Sister Thea Bowman.

She was a Catholic sister.

She died tragically young in 1990 from cancer.

But she was known for her beautiful singing voice.

And she was born and raised in Mississippi.

And went to a Catholic school and then became a nun.

And within the Catholic church, she became this outspoken advocate for racial reconciliation and also a black-centered Catholic church parish expression.

She had this magnetic personality, and you can even see it in pictures, there's almost this inner glow about her.

You cannot help but like her.

And she's one of those people where it was like, if you could talk to anyone living or dead, who would it be?

One of them for me would be Sister Thea Bowman.

- Yeah, yeah.

So, a lot of what's in this book and the profiles you create of these important people are things that our kids are not getting.

What's happening with education in this country, that this is not part of how we teach history?

- This history is subversive to some.

Because according to one narrative, the United States is nothing but a story of perpetual, if gradual, progress.

In all areas, but especially race.

And people want to leave the past in the past, as if the past doesn't exert an influence on the present.

And so it disrupts this narrative that the United States is this nation that had its issues before, but is mostly over them now and we're largely post-racial.

That's what some want to believe.

Learning this history of the black freedom struggle of faith in that movement helps us have a more colorful, nuanced, complete picture of it.

And it says, we still got a lot to work on.

So it draws attention to areas that some people would rather forget.

- Yeah, yeah.

Do you get that pushback sometimes?

- I get quite a bit of pushback because one of the things that we're dealing with now is white Christian nationalism.

And that is a ideology that wants to posit that the United States was founded as a Christian nation and that it was blessed and prospered according to how well we followed, what I would call, this very fundamentalist right-wing version of religion.

And we're going off the rails because we have all these others disrupting it, whether it be immigrants, or black people chanting black lives matter, or you name it.

And so I get the pushback because, number one, you've gotta point out the problem that white Christian nationalism doesn't look a lot like Christianity, at least according to Jesus.

And then, two, that there are these other people, like the black church tradition, that have a different way of believing this religion that is counter to that.

- Yeah, yeah.

You know, one of the other things that's really interesting in this collection is the spectrum of religious faith and belief that's represented here.

I think often when people think of African Americans, they think of faith and religion in a very kind of narrow bore way.

That it's all Baptist, for instance.

You demonstrate quite colorfully how broad that spectrum of belief and faith is.

- I mean, we came with religion, right?

- Yeah, right, (snickers).

- There was African spirituality that folks had early on.

And then, you know, many of them even were Christian in Africa prior to contact with North America.

And then we, black people did what we always do, is we take what's given to us and we remix it.

We add some seasoning to it and make it delicious, right?

And that's what we did with religion and especially Christianity.

So that even this religion that was coming from slaveholders and oppressors, black people heard a message of freedom in that and said, oh no, this applies to us in positive ways for our dignity, for our equality.

And then it, you know, it took on many different forms of the African Methodist Episcopal tradition, the flourishing of black Baptist traditions and, historically, black traditions after the Civil War.

Pentecostalism, Catholicism, it's all in there.

- Yeah, yeah.

It also strikes me that there's a connection between the discussion of this history and some of the arguments that we're having now about the importance of not just inclusion, but justice as it relates to inclusion.

That making sure that everybody has the right opportunities.

And that race is not something that's used to hold people back.

Understanding this history, understanding the role of faith and religion in that history, I think, powers the arguments that we're having over diversity and inclusion.

- You're absolutely right, especially in the political realm.

I think many people have the impression that the only way to engage in faith and politics looks like this right-wing fundamentalism, this white evangelicalism.

And what the black church tradition shows us is there's a completely different way of engaging in faith and politics that leads to expansion, and inclusion, and greater civil rights for all.

We have contemporary examples in people like Raphael Warnock, who literally breaches in the same pulpit that MLK did.

But we have so many historical examples too, like Fannie Lou Hamer, who was part of the Mississippi Freedom Democratic Party.

Shirley Chisholm, who's run for the Democratic presidential nomination, paved the way for someone like Kamala Harris today.

And so one of the things I hope that "The Spirit of Justice" does as a book is widen the aperture of what we consider engaging faith and politics in a different way.

- Yeah, yeah.

At the same time, in some ways, faith and politics now seem more distant, I think, in many ways.

That there are lots of, you have a Raphael Warnock, but you also have people who are, I think, afraid a little to embrace that tradition and build on what came before them for fear that people won't relate.

- I'm glad you pointed that out.

I think, personally, this is really a weakness on the democratic side because there is this hesitance to talk about religion, the hesitance to talk about faith.

When, in reality, the vast majority of people in this country are people of faith of some sort or another, even if there is a rise of people who don't identify with any particular tradition.

Nevertheless, I think Tim Walz is a really powerful example.

Here you have a Midwestern white guy who's also a mainline Lutheran.

And we sort of forget about that group of people.

But the mainline Christian tradition is still very powerful, has been historically.

And he's demonstrating, as a living example, somebody who is a person of faith, but looks very different from a JD Vance, for example.

- Yeah.

- So I think Democrats should talk more about religion in the right kind of ways and not shy away from it.

- Yeah, yeah.

I wonder what you make of the possibility for the work that you're doing here with kids, with schools.

Is this the kind of material that we need in the curriculums of public schools and other places?

- We gotta have that Freedom Summer, Freedom School mindset about history.

Meaning, if we're not getting it in the traditional institutions, like schools, then we gotta get it somehow.

There's an initiative in Florida, after all the backlash they faced from their governor and his administration, to have this history taught in churches.

I think we need more of that, more social institutions, community institutions, that may not be your traditional school.

That being said, this should be taught.

And it's one of the constraints we have with standardized testing.

I used to be a sixth grade teacher and a middle school principal, so I know that pressure.

But we need this history, especially because it helps young people realize they have agency, and if they see a problem in our nation, they can do something about it.