>> Republicans and Democrats are in an escalating national fight over congressional seats.

And Illinois is being encouraged to get in the ring.

Some Congress members, including the top House.

Democrats are pushing the state to redraw its districts to gain an additional Democratic seat.

local lawmakers have the final say and as only idea, California is voting today on a redistricting plan that could give Democrats 5 more seats in the Golden State.

So joining us to discuss all of that and more are Elizabeth Grossman, executive director of Common Cause Illinois.

And Ryan's Holley executive director of Change, Illinois.

Thanks to you both for joining us.

So what do you make of when asked this question to both of you?

What do you make of House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries push to redraw the state's districts?

Elizabeth, first to you.

>> Sure.

You know, I think redistricting is really terrible for boaters.

We know that common cause for a long time has respecting.

gerrymander.

That's right.

heard for owners common cause for a long time has stood against gerrymandering.

And we're going to continue to do so.

I think what's happening now is that we're in an unprecedented situation where we have the president, the United States who went to Texas and find me 5 more seats and the Texas Legislature acquiesced and now states are trying to act responsibly, you know, respond to what's happened.

And so I think that's what's happening here as organization Common Cause never supports gerrymandering.

We think that that's really, really bad for voters.

But if a state like Illinois is going to do it, we've developed fairness principles for the state to ensure that this is really a limited thing, including a promise that they will.

They will adhere to fair maps in the future.

>> So Ryan, same question to you.

What do you make of House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries push to get Illinois to do that?

>> very concerned about it.

That change Illinois.

I mean, gerrymandering is a form voter suppression.

gerrymandering happens, voters have it's much harder for them to hold elected leaders accountable who is likely to win is pretty determined for them.

And so we understand you have the national landscape of this like Gerrymandering is wrong in the state of Texas.

It wrong in Illinois.

But for Illinois voters here, we should really, you know, be concerned about further attempts to gerrymander the state's congressional district.

>> So Texas is facing legal challenges after its remapping August California.

Also voting on reading redistricting plan to get Democrats 5 more seats.

Indiana also considering remapping there.

Although there's a question of whether or not lawmakers actually have an appetite to do this.

Ryan is more states start to move forward with redrawing their districts.

Is there a case that Illinois should do the same in in the interest of of balancing were tipping the scales for us?

I don't think so Illinois itself has been highly gerrymandered pre-dated the 2021 room at our state.

>> You know, we lost a congressional seat Democrats redraw the map to give them selves.

A 43 advantage essentially eliminating to republic formerly Republican seats in the state.

And so we're starting to from a point where the state itself is highly gerrymandered.

So there's bit very slim margins to pick up additional seats for Democrats.

And so the political reality we live in the state is is there's not a lot more they can do without this missing some of the districts.

That that are currently either black majority are black per per hour.

districts which would diminish on black communities voice and that congressional map.

>> So, yeah, want to come back to that a little bit as as So both of your organizations have pushed for redistricting reform that allows relapse to be independently.

Us Senator Durbin when he joined us a couple of months ago, said that he couldn't support that unless all of the states were doing that versus just one state here in one state.

There is that what it would take to you think Elizabeth, want to come to you on this first and how do you sell that to politicians across the country that it should be nationwide?

Not just sporadically across different states.

>> I think that the conversation is as really expanding now where people are thinking about whether this needs to happen nationally.

We absolutely support that happening nationally.

I think that's absolutely right.

I think that the states that have pushed for independent maps, independent maps process are doing that in order to give the voters in that state, their voice.

It's really important that the voters are the ones selecting the politicians and not the other way around.

But I think that we can to fall and we're going to continue to fight here in Illinois that process that actually centers the voters while also fighting for reforms nationally.

Ryan, same question to you.

How do you get all the states to to get on board with Yeah, ideally there would be a national solution that would, you know, make sure it's a level playing call across the country.

I would also encourage folks to think about to let our local level our city council districts are drawn by politicians.

The county districts are drawn by the elected leaders there.

>> We could start reform locally and build up to that.

There's many ways to implement independent redistricting that puts the power back in the hands of voters at the local level.

That doesn't even wade into this congressional fight over.

You know, Congress control of Congress where we can start building momentum and support across the country that could lead to a movement nationally.

>> Illinois currently has 14 Democratic seats, 3 of them or excuse me, 3 Republican seats as we already stated, Ryan, how much of a power shift could you know, another Democratic seat make in a state that is already pretty blue.

And to your earlier point, what's the impact going to be on black voter support.

Yeah.

So I want one of the things they have to look at to Yeah, they would change the map.

>> There would still be the 28 election 2030, election before the next scheduled remapping.

So can they pass a map that would give Democrats more seats that could withstand through a few more elections?

And that's the biggest question them.

I think in weighing the political viability of this.

Can you actually, you know, add seats that that would last until the next time we did this?

The other question comes as we're lose, where do get additional, you know, areas of the state that would Democratic.

And the concern is that you want finish black voting power in the state by doing that.

And because there's, you know, when you look downstate Western Illinois, there's not a lot of areas, again, Democrats.

And so then you have to start looking at the suburban area and the city to to add additional seat for them.

>> Elizabeth Common cause, as you said, you will you've listed criteria for redistricting calling for more racial equity for voters of color in public participation as At the same time, though, the Supreme Court has said or if they considering whether there should be an expiration date for race as a factor in drawing voting districts.

Is it possible for Illinois to create a new district without further hurting voter representation?

>> It's hard to say.

I haven't seen the maps.

They're not making maps publicly available.

And that's also one of our criteria that there needs to be public participation in this process and that historically been something that Illinois legislature's our legislators are are not willing to do.

But you know, absolutely.

I think we need to continue to focus on the way that voter suppression has impacted black about movies in particular.

It is not racially neutral.

It historically has been a tool of racism.

And so I think it is a mistake to eliminate race from the consideration.

And that is why that is one of our criteria in this file is that we are ensuring that any new maps are not a leading the political power of communities of color.

What are some your other criteria?

The public participation is huge and they also need to expires.

So we know that we're in an unusual situation, but these are not to be the maps that will continue on a 6 pirates before 2030.

And we also want all the Legislature's that they're considering new maps to also promised that they're going to go and fight for independent, not process.

And we think the best way to do that is federally Ryan.

What does it mean?

What would it mean for some Illinois voters to be moved into a new district if that should happen?

Yeah.

>> It means it's harder to hold elected officials accountable.

The more that we gerrymander the state, it just means outcomes are pretty determined.

Voters have less and We already know in Illinois that our elections from congressional down to state races are not competitive.

And that's not unique.

Illinois problem.

But it is something we should be using redistricting as a tool fix, not one to entrenched power.

Redistricting should be a tool to put more power in the hands of voters to hold elected officials accountable.

Not the other way around.

What is your advice then to Illinois lawmakers as their sort of approaching this consideration knowing what some other states, Indiana, in particular might be doing.

>> Yeah.

for us, I think every state should be waiting until the 2031 cents us to do or a This is not, you know.

>> It's highly unusual to unprecedented, but it's highly unusual for there to be of mid decade remapping.

This is all about political control gaining power of Congress.

And so for us, you know, this, we should hold off ensure for the next redistricting process that there stuff in place to make sure that voters can participate in process, have a say and have districts that truly empower them.

Okay.

So we'll have to leave it.

We'll