- Coming up on American Black Journal, there is a new book out about the life and legacy of the late congressman and civil rights icon, John Conyers Jr.

It's written by his son and he's our guest today.

Plus, we'll hear about how the Charles H. Wright Museum of African American History is celebrating Juneteenth.

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(upbeat playful music) - Welcome to American Black Journal.

I'm Stephen Henderson, your host.

The Life and legacy of the late Michigan Congressman, John Conyers Jr., is the subject of a new book that was written by his son, John Conyers III.

It's titled, "My Father's House: An Ode to America's Longest Serving Black Congressman."

In the book, John shares his memories of growing up as the son of one of the country's most iconic civil rights leaders.

He also delves into politics and leadership today in 2025.

I'm pleased to welcome John Conyers III to American Black Journal.

Welcome to the show.

- Thank you for having me, Stephen, I greatly appreciate it.

- So I'm really intrigued by the idea of writing this book.

Anyone writing about their parents, I think faces an enormous number of hurdles and challenges in terms of how to tell that story, why to tell that story, and just even where to start.

But for you, that takes on an added dimension of difficulty, I think, because of who your dad was, who he was, not just to you, but who he was to the city an to the country.

So let's start there.

Let's start with the idea of this book.

What brought you to this moment where you felt like this was a story you needed to tell?

- Well, I did not want to write a book book about my father.

That's not how it came to be.

It came into being, he started working on a book, and in the process of us working on that book and basically being near the, you know, the goal line to, you know, getting a book deal and all the things, he passed away.

And so, after he passed away, it really turned into, well, if you want this story to be told, and I think it is important that Black people tell their own stories.

- [Stephen] Yes.

- And we get to dictate the direction in which a legacy goes.

And all those things.

My agent said to me, if you want the story to be told, you are gonna have to write it.

- [Stephen] You're gonna have to do it.

- Write the book.

- Yeah.

- And so we used a lot of material, or I used, I repurposed a lot of material from, you know, what my father had begun, and then figured out how we contextualized, I figured out how we contextualized him kind of after that, and what stories were important.

And then obviously I understand what my politics are and who I am, separate and apart from my father and how he's shaped who I am.

And so that became like how we.

- Yeah.

- We have now.

- So now that the book is done, do you feel like it is a primarily personal take on your dad?

Or is it a mix of that and the sort of external view of him as well?

- I think the purpose, for me, at least, with the book, number one, I try to be as objective as possible, right?

One of the things that is a tenant and core pillar of my life is like accountability, right?

And so when we, when I was examining not only my father, myself, and whomever else in this work, it was important for me to be as objective as possible so that, you know, the bias that people think that this book would be written with.

- Sure, sure.

- Could kind of be removed.

I tried to focus on his career and things that occurred that he was present for and situate him rightfully so, and as he was, at some of the most seminal moments.

- Yeah.

- Of this country's history, from being the first person to introduce articles of impeachment on President Nixon, to being the author of the MLK holiday, being the father of the Medicare for All movement.

Right?

Like these are the things that are factual.

And I just tried to bring them to the forefront for folks to understand that, you know, a Black person, a Black man, is who started this fight.

- Yeah, yeah.

I mean, just having you rattle off those few things.

I mean, there were so many things that he did that were either first or, or significant for other reasons.

I'm really curious for you, as his son, which things for you stand out about him in terms of his public persona, the things that he did that you think most identify him for, sort of what he believed and what he wanted to do.

- Well, I think those are two different things.

I think.

- [John] Yeah.

- What stands out to me is Medicare for All and probably reparations.

I think that, again, part of writing this book, I think the folks that have carried on the work that my father started have largely removed him from that narrative.

And so it was important for me to write this book to reach, introduce him to those things.

Whether that's reparations or Medicare for All.

- You feel like he's been being erased from those narratives.

- 100%, right?

I think that.

- I hear his name a lot.

- I don't hear, when you talk about Medicare for All, I don't hear John Conyers.

I hear Bernie Sanders, I hear AOC.

- Right.

- And I was present when Bernie, you know, it was actually at Fellowship Chapel where Bernie and my father had a conversation about, you know, hey, you know, John, I think I'm going to really lead into the Medicare for All thing.

- Yeah, yeah.

- And so I think it's important that, like, I'm grateful to Bernie for caring.

It's very important work.

- [Stephen] Yeah.

- But 22 years ago, my father is the person before Bernie.

- [Stephen] Who said, hey, this is.

- He introduced the bill.

And I think it is important that like, while Bernie is carrying that mantle and a AOC, she's carrying that mantle, we don't forget the person who is responsible.

And the literal framework for that was a Black man from Detroit.

- [Stephen] Yeah.

- And then when we talk about reparations, very grateful to Ayanna Pressley, grateful to Erica, Erica Lee Carter and Sheila Jackson Lee for carrying on the torch.

But for 22 straight years, John Conyers introduced that legislation, every year, right?

And so I think to not have him be a part of that conversation consistently, I think it does a disservice to the work.

- Yeah.

- Yeah, let's talk about now, and you know, not just what your father's work means to those movements now, but what it means to you.

I mean, as you point out, you're someone with your own, with your own politics and beliefs.

- I mean, above my politics, what my father's work signifies to me, and I hope signifies to so many other folks, is that, you know, the work you do, you may not get to see the fruits of it.

- [Stephen] Sure.

- Right.

- But you have to lay the foundation for someone.

If we're talking about people picking up the mantle and carrying the torch, even though they're not necessarily speaking about my father, the foundation was laid for them to carry that work on.

- Yeah.

- And I think it is vitally important that we pick up or we do work that we may not be here to see the fruits of, right?

Because that is work that needs to be done regardless.

And so, you know, that's kind of where I land on what is important or what my takeaways are from that.

- Yeah.

- From my father's work.

- What would your dad think about, and this is a lot, this may be an unfair question.

What would your dad think about where we are right now?

I mean, we are at such a crossroads, I think, not just in terms of policy issues, not just in terms of race, but in terms of the very foundation of what makes us a nation.

And I'm not sure that everyone believes that we're going to be a nation, at least in the same way in the future.

I think about the things that your dad had to fight so hard to change people's minds about or get them to consider.

What would he think of this moment and what would he be called to, I guess, in this moment?

- Well, he wrote an article about Donald Trump when he was in office, when he served.

So there we, I have a little,.

- We know what he thought.

- I know what my dad thought of.

I think it's bigger than Trump.

I think this is about us as Americans.

- Well, I think, I mean, when you say, you know, the country may not be the same.

I think obviously the country's not the same as it was 10 years ago, or 20 or 30 years ago.

So I think change, and one thing my father taught me, it's like change is a constant.

- [Stephen] Yeah.

- It's always gonna happen.

I think that we get to decide, you know, we have elections coming up this year.

We have elections next year.

We get to decide the direction that the country's going to go in.

I hope that there are people that learn from, you know, what has transpired and what the six months since president Trump has taken office.

And so I think it's really important that folks get engaged.

I think that would be my father's thing.

And then the other thing is, we're talking, we're looking at the rule of law in so much that's happened.

My father encouraged every person that he came in contact with to go to law school.

- [Stephen] Yeah.

- And so I think, you know, we need more folks that are going to uphold the law and understand the law and fight for the rule of law, yeah.

- Yeah.

I know for sure he would be very proud of what you're doing.

- I appreciate you saying that.

- And of the book.

What do you hope people who maybe don't know your dad that well or don't know his legacy that well, might pick the book up, read it, what would you want them to take from it?

- What I would want people to take away from the book, and one of the things that I talk about consistently, is that like, as a Black man or a Black person in America, we have a right to take up space in this country at the highest levels.

And when you get to those spaces, it is incumbent upon you to take up space and speak up on behalf of folks that look like you, that come from where you come from and as much as you possibly can, come out on the right side of history.

I think that is what I hope my takeaway, I hope their takeaway is.

And then the final thing when we talk about my politics is understanding that like, you know, we have the ability to shape this country.

The book is about a guy who did that.

- Right.

- And so we need more folks that are willing to step into that space and take up space and change and shape the direction of this country.

- Yeah, yeah.

All right, well, congratulations.

- Thank you very much.

And thanks for joining us on American Black Journal.

- Thank you for having me.

- Up next, we're gonna talk about the Wright Museum's Juneteenth celebration.

But first we've reached into our archives for this clip from a 2000 episode of American Black Journal, and it features John Conyers Jr. - HR 40, where does it stand now and what kind of substantive progressive dialogue is it really generating?

The whole concept of reparations always gives my subject matter HR 40 a boost when it's used in a modern context.

As recently, those in the Holocaust who were forced to work in the plants, the German plants, some automobile plants even, there were reparations that were negotiated out.

As a matter of fact, some of our government officials played a very key role, Mr. Eisenstadt, in negotiating this out.

And so the whole question of, what about the cruelest, longest, most punitive Holocaust of all time, the period of African enslavement in this country.

And there, we get into a non dialogue silence.

And what I've tried to do is determine what would be the best strategy to raise this up.

In Washington, we debate everything, the furthest reaches of the cosmos, the tiny microbacteria in the water, we hypothesize to and fro.

- This is the fifth year that Juneteenth will be celebrated across the nation as a federal holiday.

It was June 19th, 1865 when the last group of enslaved people in Galveston, Texas finally learned that they were free, more than two years after the signing of the Emancipation Proclamation.

The Charles H. Wright Museum of African American history is commemorating Juneteenth with a variety of activities that celebrate Black history, Black culture and community.

Here to tell us more is Lance Wheeler.

He is the museum's Vice President of Learning and Engagement.

Welcome to American Black Journal.

- Thank you, how you doing?

- Hard to believe this is the fifth anniversary.

It seems like this is a more recent thing.

And I think part of the reason that's true is that when I talk to people about Juneteenth, I still get surprise from some folks that it is a federal holiday.

And then beyond that, there are still people who ask me, well, what is that?

What is Juneteenth?

Well, mostly not people in our community, but people from the outside.

And I think part of the point of this is getting everyone to understand the significance of this and why we pause.

- Yeah.

- Every year on this day to think about it.

- Yeah.

And, and I think for me, that the significance behind Juneteenth isn't just remembering the enslaved people in Galvin, Texas found out about it, it's now freedom.

- [Stephen] Yes.

- What does that mean?

- [Stephen] Right.

- What do we do as Black Americans to now grasp something that's new to us and experiencing that, right?

And so for us, for me, Juneteenth is a moment to reflect of who we are.

- [Stephen] Yeah.

- Where we come from, but also where are we going.

- [Stephen] Yeah.

- Right?

- Yeah, that's a great way to, that's a great way to think about it.

So talk about how that reflects in the things that the museum does every year.

- Yeah, so we were intentional.

Well, every year we do that throughout our programs and our exhibitions, right?

But particularly for Juneteenth, coming up through our public programs, we are doing a art healing activity where we are painting individuals or a Juneteenth flag, Right, to pay homage to where we came from.

We are also having a video screening of "The Clotilda," which was the last American slave ship.

- [Stephen] Yeah.

- Following up with a panel discussion with Jamal Jordan of the city's historian, having conversation with descendants from the Clotilda to really talk about what freedom is.

- Yeah.

- What does that truly mean to be a descendant from a former enslaved person, right?

And then we're gonna really wrap up the evening with a musical performance, right?

Because with celebration as Black people, we sing, we dance.

- Right.

- Right?

- We have a good time.

- Yeah.

- And so that's, we're really running our activities from 10:00 AM to 9:00 PM at night.

It's a all day event.

- Yeah.

- And it's free.

- And it's free, right.

I mean, it has been free each year and that's important to kind of welcome everybody in.

- [Lance] Yes.

- Who's interested.

You're fairly new here and at the museum.

Tell me how important this day and this celebration is at the museum and why the Wright is the right place.

- [Lance] Yeah.

- For us to do this.

- I will say that the museum's been around, we're really celebrating our 60 year anniversary this year.

What does that mean?

Right?

In a Black city, right?

But also important, I wanna point out that before Juneteenth was a national holiday, the museum was always celebrating - [Stephen] Was always acknowledging it, right?

- We always acknowledged it, right?

We as people and as an institution, we didn't need someone to tell us this is a national holiday.

For us, it was always a celebration of freedom, remembrance, and honoring our ancestors.

And today, and so the museum is still gonna continue to do that 60 years later down the road, whether it is a national holiday day, right?

Still, or whether it's not.

- [Stephen] Yeah.

- We're gonna still always celebrate and honor and remember who we are.

Also talk about this year and what I guess I would assign additional importance to, for recognizing not just this day, but as you point out, the idea of freedom.

We're having quite an intense, I think, debate about what freedom means and should look like in this country.

And not just for African Americans.

- For all people.

- [Lance] For all people.

You know, I think the word freedom can be very subjective.

It means different things for different people, right?

I think for me, if I had to talk about, for me personally, freedom means a sense of peace, right?

A sense of imagination, right?

And I think the Charles H. Wright African American Museum does that, right?

Dr. Wright had a vision of like, how do we create freedom?

How do we create imagination, but also how do we remember who we are and where we're going.

- Yeah.

- And so for me, that is what freedom is, even in the complexities of this country, I think we have to take moments to remember those moments.

And I think the museum does a, a fantastic job of reminding us of who we are, how we got here and where we're going.

- Yeah yeah.

That sense of peace, I think is really key right now.

Because I think there are so many people who don't feel at peace Because they feel like, you know, the freedom is threatened.

- Yeah.

- [Lance] You don't know where we're going.

- Or in question in a way that it wasn't before.

You know, how do we sort of settle that discussion so that everybody does feel that sense of peace?

- I think for me, if we're thinking about Juneteenth, right?

And we're honoring and remembering former, enslaved people, right?

They went through a process of a system that broke them, right?

That destroyed them, that ripped families away from them.

But those individuals kept moving forward, right?

In the hope of one day freedom, right?

- [Stephen] Right, right.

- And transitioning that to individuals like Dr. King, Dr. Wright, Malcolm X, Dr. Betty Shabazz, right?

Looking and remembering, I do remember where we come from, right?

- Right.

- Remember that they had held on hope, and hope was pouring into me and freedom was poured into me.

And so I think for me, that's the way that we continue to do that, Even in turmoil in this country.

- Yeah.

- Right?

Is remembering the past to say, hey, if we can get through that process, we can get through this again.

- Yeah, I've been saying for a while now that, you know, for African Americans, this is not new.

- Not at all.

- This period is not new.

This is our continued existence.

There are lots of folks joining us now, not to their own choice.

ut in some cases they're learning what that feels like to agree to be in that position.

- It's just new players on the board.

- Yeah, right.

- That's it.

- Right.

Let's talk about the welcome that you guys kind of extend, I think, for this, I mean, it is a celebration of an event in African American history, and it is about African American freedom, but we want people who are not African American to feel like, hey, I could come and be part of this and I could learn something.

- Yeah, we're not exclusive.

We want to educate everybody.

- [Stephen] Yeah.

- Right?

Of all ages, backgrounds.

And so we welcome, we want to be in conversation because this is not just Black African, Black American, African American history, this is American history, right?

We have been part of this country for a very long time.

Right?

And we know that in dialogue, we can't continue to tell our own story just by ourselves.

We have to share it with people, because we are a resilient people.

And this is country is also resilient, right?

And so we welcome our, we open our door, excuse me, to everyone.

- Yeah, yeah.

We've got about a minute left, but I want to have you talk just a little about the 60th.

- Yeah.

- Stuff that's going on.

- So we have a lot of things happening this year.

We do have our gala and we would love people to come.

And it's to celebrate 60 years of the museum once again.

And then we have a slate of activities and public programs and exhibitions happening.

We do have currently have an exhibition called Luminosity that's up.

Hmm.

That's featuring Detroit artists from different periods.

And it's gonna be up for an entire year.

So we say, come and visit, come and learn, come and share, come and laugh.

- [Stephen] Yeah.

- And even come dance with us beyond Juneteenth at the museum for this year.

- All right, well congratulations on all the great programming.

- Thank you.

- And thanks for being here with us.

- Thank you.

- There are several other events taking place in metro Detroit that celebrate Juneteenth Independence Day.

Here's a look at some of the activities this month.

(upbeat playful music) That's gonna do it for us this week.

You can find out more about our guests at americanblackjournal.org and you can connect with us anytime on social media.

Take care, and we'll see you next time.