>>> HELLO, EVERYONE.

WELCOME TO "AMANPOUR & CO." HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.

THE PRESIDENT UPBEAT ABOUT PEACE IN THE MIDDLE EAST, BUT ISRAEL CONTINUES TO BOMBARD GAZA AND NOW TALKS ABOUT DISPLACING THOUSANDS OF PALESTINIANS.

I'LL UNPACK THE NETANYAHU-TRUMP MEETING WITH DEPUTY EDITOR IN CHIEF FOR "HARETZ."

>> IF THEY CALL WITH A DIFFERENT OFFER, AND I LIKE IT, WE'LL DO IT.

>> TARIFF TURMOIL.

ARNIE TADESHI JOINS ME.

THEN, THREE YEARS SINCE THE OVERTURNING OF ROE V. WADE, NEW BATTLE LINES IN THE FIGHT FOR REPRODUCTIVE HEALTH IN AMERICA.

PLUS -- >> I'M INTERESTED IN WRITING A PLAY ABOUT A BLACK POLITICAL DYNASTY AND THERE AREN'T THAT MANY.

"PURPOSE," BRANDEN JACOBS-JENKINS TALKS TO HARI SREENIVASAN ABOUT THE STRONG INFLUENCE FOR HIS WORK.

♪ >>> "AMANPOUR & CO." IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT, JIM ATTWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS, CANDACE KING WEIR, THE SYLVIA A.

AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTISEMITISM, THE FAMILY FOUNDATION OF LEILA AND MICKEY STRAUS, MARK J. BLECHNER, THE FILOMEN M. D'AGOSTINO FOUNDATION, SETON J. MELVIN, THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND, CHARLES ROSENBLUM, KOO AND PATRICIA YUEN, COMMITTED TO CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES, BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, JEFFREY KATZ AND BETH ROGERS AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

>>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, EVERYONE.

I'M BIANA GOLIDRYGA.

CEASEFIRE TALKS ARE GOING WELL.

AND WHILE THE WORLD WAITS FOR AGREEMENT, THE PEOPLE OF GAZA CONTINUE TO BE BOMBED.

MORE THAN 60 PEOPLE HAVE BEEN REPORTED KILLED THERE TODAY.

MEANWHILE, THE ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER WAS EXTREMELY OPTIMISTIC AFTER HIS MEETING WITH TRUMP, SAYING EVEN THAT PEACE BETWEEN ISRAEL AND THE ENTIRE MIDDLE EAST WAS POSSIBLE UNDER PRESIDENT TRUMP'S LEADERSHIP.

THIS AS ISRAEL'S DEFENSE MINISTER ISRAEL KATZ SAYS HE HAS ORDER THE MILITARY TO PREPARE THE ESTABLISHMENT OF A, QUOTE, HUMANITARIAN CITY IN THE RUINS OF RAFAH.

HE SAID 600,000 PALESTINIANS WOULD BE MOVED INTO IT AND NOT PERMITTED TO LEAVE WITH THE ENTIRE POPULATION OF GAZA EVENTUALLY MOVED IN.

THE PLAN IS HIGHLY CONTROVERSIAL AND RAISES CONCERNS UNDER INTERNATIONAL LAW.

LET'S GET INTO ALL OF THIS NOW, NOAH LANDO OF THE ISRAELI NEWSPAPER HARETZ WHICH HAS DONE EXTENSIVE REPORTING ON THE WAR, SHE JOINS US FROM TEL AVIV.

IT IS GOOD IT SEE YOU.

IT HAS BEEN A WHILE.

YESTERDAY WAS QUITE A DISPLAY OF PLATITUDES, THE PRESIDENT BEING GIVEN THE NOTIFICATION THAT ISRAEL HAS OFFICIALLY NOMINATED HIM FOR A NOBEL PEACE PRIZE.

AND, OF COURSE, MORE TALK ABOUT A POTENTIAL CEASEFIRE DEAL, BUT NOTHING CONCRETE WAS ANNOUNCED.

WAS THAT A SURPRISE?

>> WHICH PART WAS A SURPRISE?

I DON'T THINK IT WAS A SURPRISE.

YOU KNOW THE NOBEL PEACE PRIZE, LET'S SEE IF THERE IS PEACE BEFORE A PRIZE.

AND REGARD, THE CEASEFIRE, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE BEEN HEARING FROM PRESIDENT TRUMP FOR A LONG TIME NOW THAT WE'RE SO-CALLED APPROACHING A DEAL.

HE SAID THAT EVEN BEFORE THE OPERATION IN IRAN.

AND NETANYAHU HAS BEEN SAYING THAT ALSO FROM TIME TO TIME, THAT WE'RE NEAR SOME KIND OF A CEASEFIRE.

BUT WE HAVEN'T SEEN IT YET.

>> THERE ARE STILL SEVERAL STICKING POINTS, THOUGH WE DID HEAR JUST MOMENTS AGO FROM STEVE WITKOFF THAT THE PRESIDENT WAS MEETING WITH HIS CABINET, THAT A DEAL COULD BE ANNOUNCED BY THE END OF THE WEEK, THAT IS, OF COURSE, A 60-DAY CEASEFIRE DEAL WHERE WE WOULD SEE AS MANY AS TEN LIVING HOSTAGES RELEASED AS WELL AS 18 BODIES OF THE DECEASED HOSTAGES, A PAUSE IN THE FIGHTING, RENEWED HUMANITARIAN AID, EVEN MORE HUMANITARIAN AID GOING INTO GAZA, AND THE RELEASE OF PALESTINIAN PRISONERS FROM ISRAELI JAILS.

BUT I KNOW THERE ARE STILL SEVERAL STICKING POINTS AND AMONG THEM ARE CALLS FOR ISRAEL TO LEAVE THE MORAG CORRIDOR AND THE PHILADELPHIAY CORRIDOR AND PRIME MINISTER NETANYAHU SEEMS VERY RELUCTANT TO DO SO EVEN AGAINST THE URGING OF HIS MILITARY LEADERSHIP THERE, JUST HOW STICKING ARE THOSE STICKING POINTS?

>> IT IS ALL PART OF THE NEGOTIATIONS, BUT WHAT WE'RE SEEING HERE NOW IS BASICALLY ANOTHER PARTIAL PART OF A BIGGER CEASEFIRE THAT IS NOT REALLY ON THE TABLE.

WE'RE SEEING ANOTHER ROUND OF NEGOTIATIONS ON RELEASING PART OF THE HOSTAGES IN GAZA, NOT ALL OF THEM.

THERE IS STILL, YOU KNOW, A PART AT THE END OF THIS DEAL, THIS PARTIAL DEAL, THAT WILL, YOU KNOW, SAY SOMETHING LIKE, IN THE END OF THIS STAGE, THE 60-DAY CEASEFIRE AGAIN NEGOTIATE THE TRUE FINAL CEASEFIRE.

SO, THIS IS STILL A PARTIAL PART OF THIS LONG, LONG NEGOTIATION PROCESS.

>> AND PRIME MINISTER NETANYAHU CONTINUES TO DEMAND THAT PART OF THE END OF THE WAR WOULD INCLUDE THE HAMAS IS NO LONGER IN CONTROL OF GAZA, THAT IS SOMETHING THE UNITED STATES HAS ALSO SUPPORTED, BUT THEN WHEN IT COMES TO WHO WOULD BE IN CONTROL, BOTH MILITARILY, POLITICALLY OF GAZA, THAT'S WHERE THE TWO SIDES AT LEAST IN THE PAST HAVE DIFFERED.

PRESIDENT BIDEN HAD SAID IT SHOULD BE THE PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY, I DON'T KNOW WE HEARD MUCH FROM PRESIDENT TRUMP ON WHO THE GOVERNING BODY SHOULD BE, BUT THEN THAT RAISES THE QUESTION OF -- A SUGGESTION, AN IDEA PROPOSED BY PRESIDENT TRUMP A FEW MONTHS AGO AND THAT IS THE RELOCATION, THE TRANSFER OF PALESTINIANS TO OTHER COUNTRIES, PRIME MINISTER NETANYAHU SAID THAT THERE ARE SEVERAL COUNTRIES WHO ARE NOW THINKING ABOUT AND PERHAPS EVEN OPEN TO THE IDEA OF TAKING IN SOME OF THESE PALESTINIANS THESE COUNTRIES HAVE NOT BEEN NAMED.

HERE IS WHAT HE SAID.

>> I THINK PRESIDENT TRUMP HAD A BRILLIANT VISION, CALLED FREE CHOICE.

PEOPLE WANT TO STAY, THEY CAN STAY.

BUT IF THEY WANT TO LEAVE, THEY SHOULD BE ABLE TO LEAVE.

SHOULDN'T BE A, YOU KNOW, PRISON, IT SHOULD BE AN OPEN PLACE AND GIVE PEOPLE FREE CHOICE.

WE'RE WORKING WITH THE UNITED STATES, VERY CLOSELY, ABOUT FINDING COUNTRIES THAT WILL SEEK TO REALIZE WHAT THEY ALWAYS SAY, THAT THEY WANTED TO GIVE THE PALESTINIANS A BETTER FUTURE.

>> SO THIS IS AN IDEA THAT HAS RAISED A LOT OF EYEBROWS, HAS BEEN CONDEMNED BY MANY.

WHAT IS THE LIKELIHOOD OF A SCENARIO LIKE THIS ACTUALLY COMING TO FRUITION, BECAUSE WE HAVEN'T HEARD PRESIDENT TRUMP GO BACK TO THIS PLAN IN QUITE A WHILE.

>> YOU KNOW, SAYING THIS IS A FREE CHOICE IS PRETTY CYNICAL WHEN YOU LOOK AT WHAT IS HAPPENING IN GAZA.

THE PEOPLE REALLY HAVE FREE CHOICE.

AND THE FACT THAT MINISTER KATZ SAID THE PEOPLE THAT GO INTO THAT, WHAT THEY CALL HUMANITARIAN ZONE OR CITY WILL NOT BE ACTUALLY ALLOWED TO LEAVE, ONLY TO LEAVE TO OTHER COUNTRIES PUTS IN QUESTION THIS WHOLE ISSUE OF FREE CHOICE.

I THINK, YOU KNOW, THIS IDEA SOUNDS ALSO HORRIBLE WHEN THEY SAY THEY WANT TO CONCENTRATE PEOPLE IN THIS CITY OR CAMP.

BUT I THINK WHAT IS REALLY GOING ON, YOU MIGHT MAYBE UNDERSTAND IF YOU LISTEN CLOSELY TO SOME OF THE PRIME MINISTER'S ADVISERS WHO ARE SPEAKING ANONYMOUSLY FROM WASHINGTON IN THE PAST DAY, AND THEY'RE SAYING THINGS LIKE, WE HOPE THAT THIS MIGHT MAYBE ENCOURAGE SOME OF THE GULF STATES TO COME IN AND TAKE CONTROL THEMSELVES.

SO, YOU KNOW, WE SAW IN THE PAST, PLANS LIKE THE FULL ANNEXATION OF THE WEST BANK USED AS A BARGAINING CHIP IN THE BIGGER DEAL WITH THE UAE IN THE ABRAM ACCORDS.

I DON'T KNOW IF THIS IS WHAT WILL HAPPEN NOW, BUT IT COULD BE ALSO PART OF A BIGGER NEGOTIATION FOR REGIONAL DEAL, WHERE, YOU KNOW, ISRAEL COULD DROP THESE PLANS IN EXCHANGE FOR SOMEONE ELSE TAKING THE RESPONSIBILITY.

>> AND TALKING TO MY SOURCES, THE LIKELIHOOD OF THAT HAPPENING THUS FAR FOR GULF STATES TO COME IN AND TAKE THE RESPONSIBILITY HERE ARE SLIM TO NONE.

AND YOU MENTIONED CONSOLIDATING PEOPLE, MILLIONS OF PALESTINIANS INTO A TIGHT SPACE, THAT IS PRIME MINISTER NETANYAHU WANTING TO ESTABLISH A TENT CITY IN RAFA FOR 2 MILLION GAZANS, THAT'S ALSO SOMETHING THAT HE'S CLASHED WITH THE IDF CHIEF ABOUT.

BECAUSE THE IDF CHIEF DOES NOT WANT TO SEE THE IDF ACTUALLY CONTROLLING THIS LAND AND SO MANY PEOPLE IN THIS SPACE FOR SUCH A LONG EXTENDED PERIOD OF TIME.

CAN I JUST TALK TO YOU AND ASK ABOUT THE MOOD IN ISRAEL AS IT RELATES TO THE WAR IN GAZA?

WE ARE NOW FASTLY APPROACHING THE TWO-YEAR MARK.

IT IS HARD TO BELIEVE, SINCE THE HORRORS OF OCTOBER 7th.

THERE ARE STILL 50 HOSTAGES IN GAZA, 206 THEM BELIEVED TO BE ALIVE, WE HAVE SEEN TENS OF THOUSANDS OF DEATHS IN THE ENCLAVE SINCE AND HUMANITARIAN TRAGEDY UNFOLD THERE.

AND YOU JUXTAPOSE THAT WITH THE 12-DAY WAR IN IRAN, WHICH SADLY, YES, THERE WERE CIVILIAN CASUALTIES IN ISRAEL, BUT YOU DIDN'T SEE IDF SOLDIERS KILLED.

NOW IT IS A DIFFERENT TYPE OF WAR OBVIOUSLY, AERIAL VERSUS GROUND, BUT I BELIEVE EVEN SINCE LAST NIGHT FIVE ISRAELI SOLDIERS HAVE BEEN KILLED AS WELL.

SO, WHAT IS THE MOOD IN ISRAEL AS IT RELATES TO THE WAR IN GAZA?

>> WELL, YOU'RE RIGHT.

AND I THINK FOR MANY ISRAELIS, FROM THE CENTER-LEANING CAMP, THERE IS LESS AND LESS PATIENCE FOR THIS WAR.

WE SEE THAT MOSTLY BECAUSE IN ISRAEL THERE IS MANDATORY MILITARY SERVICE, WE SEE THAT MANY FAMILIES ARE LOSING THEIR PATIENCE, THEY DON'T WANT TO SEE THEIR CHILDREN THERE ANYMORE.

THEY'RE HAVING A HARDER TIME TO SEE THE GOAL, TO SEE THE ENDGAME OF ALL OF THIS.

AND WHEN YOU SEE THE FAR RIGHT AND THE GOVERNMENT TALKING ABOUT, YOU KNOW, BUILDING SETTLEMENTS IN GAZA OR TRANSFER PLAN AND ALL THESE THINGS, THESE ARE THINGS THAT THE ISRAELIS, THE POLITICAL CENTER HAS A HARDER TIME TO CEM AND THEY DON'T SEE IT AS A LEGITIMATE END TO THIS WAR AND SO WE DO FEEL THAT THERE IS MORE AND MORE PRESSURE FROM WITHIN ISRAELI SOCIETY TO, OF COURSE, BRING THE HOSTAGES BACK, BUT ALSO END THE WAR.

>> AND WE SHOULD NOTE, SO MANY OF THESE SOLDIERS FIGHTING THIS WAR NOW FASTLY AS WE NOTED APPROACHING THE TWO-YEAR MARK ARE RESERVISTS.

IN A RECENT HARETZ PIECE, A JOURNALIST WROTE ABOUT FIVE SOLDIERS THEY DESCRIBED A TRAUMATIC REALITY OF 21 MONTHS OF WAR IN GAZA, THE VOICES OF ACTIVE DUTY SOLDIERS HAVE BEEN UNHEARD AND UNKNOWN TO THE ISRAELI PUBLIC.

TALK TO US ABOUT SOME OF THAT REPORTING.

>> RIGHT, SO THAT WAS A GREAT PIECE ABOUT, YOU KNOW, THE TESTIMONIES OF THE SOLDIERS THEMSELVES.

TOM HAS BEEN COVERING A LOT OF ALSO POST TRAUMATIC SYNDROME AMONG THESE SOLDIERS, AND THE FACT THAT THESE SOLDIERS THEMSELVES FRESH OUT OF HIGH SCHOOL HAVE BEEN ONLY, YOU KNOW, FIGHTING IN GAZA FOR ALL THESE MONTHS AND THEY'RE HAVING A HARDER TIME TOO TO CONTINUE.

>> HOW DO YOU RESPOND, NOA, TO SOME OF THE CRITICISM AND PUSHBACK THAT YOUR REPORTING HAS GARNERED FROM THE ADMINISTRATION AND NETANYAHU GOVERNMENT, CALLING IT BLOOD LIBEL THAT YOU ARE SPREADING IN SOME OF THIS REPORTING?

WHAT IS YOUR RESPONSE TO THAT?

>> WELL, IT IS -- WE'RE USED TO IT.

WE BROUGHT THE TESTIMONIES OF THE SOLDIERS THEMSELVES.

THEY SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES.

THE MILITARY ALSO DID NOT -- THEY ALSO SAID THEY'RE ACTUALLY GOING TO CHANGE SOME OF THE ORDERS ON THE GROUND BECAUSE OF THAT STORY THAT WE PUBLISHED AND OTHERS.

SO, WE UNDERSTAND THAT THE GOVERNMENT IS NOT FOND OF CRITICISM, BUT WE WILL STILL DO WHAT WE DO.

AND THAT IS TO REPORT THE TRUTH AND BRING TESTIMONIES TO OUR READERS.

>> NOA, WHAT IS THE LIKELIHOOD LOOK LIKE NOW, THE POSSIBILITY IN A POST IRAN WAR AT LEAST THIS LAST STAGE OF THE IRAN-ISRAEL WAR WHICH SET BACK ITS NUCLEAR AND BALLISTIC PROGRAMS SIGNIFICANTLY AND WEAKENED THE COUNTRY.

WHAT IS THE OPTIMISM THERE IN THE COUNTRY FOR WIDER PEACE IN THE REGION AND I'M TALKING ABOUT POTENTIAL NORMALIZATION WITH COUNTRIES LIKE SYRIA, LEBANON.

NAMES THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN UNIMAGINABLE JUST A FEW MONTHS AGO.

>> IT IS INTERESTING TO SEE THAT THE ISRAELI -- MOST OF THE PUBLIC, REACTION WITHIN THE ISRAELI SOCIETY TO THE POSSIBILITY THAT THERE WILL ACTUALLY BE SOME KIND OF AGREEMENT WITH SYRIA IS WIDELY ACCEPTED.

SO THIS IS, YOU KNOW, SOMETHING THAT REGIONAL CHANGE CAUSED AND WE COULDN'T SEE BEFORE.

REGARDING IRAN, THERE IS STILL A DEBATE WITHIN ISRAEL AS, YOU KNOW, THERE IS IN THE REST OF THE WORLD, HOW MUCH DID IT REALLY, YOU KNOW, TOOK THEIR PLANS BACK.

THERE IS STILL THE QUESTION OF WILL WE SEE AN ACTUAL DEAL WITH THEM?

BUT I THINK THERE IS A SLIM SLIGHT HOPE THAT MAYBE ALL, YOU KNOW, WHAT WE WENT THROUGH, THIS PAST MORE THAN A YEAR AND A HALF WILL -- COULD MAYBE END WITH A BIGGER REGIONAL CHANGE.

>> YEAH.

AND, OF COURSE, THE BIG PRIZE WOULD BE FOR SAUDI NORMALIZATION, BUT AS MBS HAS LONG SAID THAT THE ISSUE OF GAZA AND PALESTINIANS THERE IN THE ENCLAVE AND IN THE WEST BANK HAS TO BE RESOLVED BEFORE THAT CAN HAPPEN.

NOA LANDAU, THANK YOU FOR GIN JOINING THE SHOW, APPRECIATE IT.

>> THANK YOU.

>>> PRESIDENT TRUMP'S LATEST WAR ON TARIFFS, THE DEADLINE WAS MEANT TO COME AT MIDNIGHT TONIGHT.

BUT THAT WON'T HAPPEN.

THAT'S AFTER THE PRESIDENT EXTENDED HIS INITIAL 90 DAY PAUSE UNTIL AUGUST 1st.

HE RENEWED HIS THREATS OF STEEPER TARIFFS IN A SERIES OF LETTERS TO COUNTRIES LIKE JAPAN AND SOUTH KOREA.

NOW, IT SEEMS MANY TRADE DEALS PERFECT IN THE ARE IN THE STATE OF LIMBO.

ARNET TADESHI.

WE CAN PLAY BACK THE PREVIOUS TIME WE HAD YOU ON THE SHOW AS WE DISCUSSED THE UNCERTAINTY SURROUNDING SOME OF THESE TARIFFS.

FIRST, IT WAS LIBERATION DAY, BACK IN APRIL.

WE SAW THE MARKETS, THE STOCK MARKET, THE BOND MARKET REACT.

THE PRESIDENT WAS SPOOKED, HE DELAYED IT THROUGH JULY, NOW WE KNOW HE'S DELAYING IT THROUGH AUGUST 1 st. TALK ABOUT THAT ALONE, THE CONSTANT DELAY AND THE EXTENDED UNCERTAINTY, THE IMPACT THAT HAS ON CORPORATIONS AND ON THE U.S. ECONOMY AS A WHOLE.

>> RIGHT.

THE UNCERTAINTY IS REALLY WHAT IS PUNCTUATING THE ECONOMIC EFFECT OF THESE TARIFFS RIGHT NOW.

NO TAX IS, YOU KNOW, GREAT FOR THE ECONOMY OR BUSINESSES, BUT I THINK IN PARTICULAR WHAT IS MAKING THESE TARIFFS MORE DAMAGING THAN THEY OTHERWISE WOULD BE IS THE WAY IN WHICH THEY'RE BEING ROLLED OUT AND THE UNCERTAINTY FOR CONSUMERS AND BUSINESSES.

IF YOU'RE A SMALL BUSINESS, FOR EXAMPLE, YOU'RE NOT SURE WHEN THE OPTIMAL TIME IS TO ORDER FOR THE HOLIDAYS THIS YEAR.

YOU CERTAINLY DON'T KNOW WHETHER IT IS APPROPRIATE TO INVEST IN YOUR BUSINESS FOR THE NEXT SEVERAL YEARS OR TO HIRE UP FOR YOUR BUSINESS OVER THE NEXT SEVERAL YEARS BECAUSE YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT THE STATE OF TARIFFS WILL BE AT THAT TIME.

AND YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT THE OVERALL ECONOMY IS GOING TO LOOK LIKE.

SO, IT MAKES IT VERY DIFFICULT TO MAKE ANYTHING OTHER THAN, YOU KNOW, EXTREMELY SHORT RUN OVERNIGHT DECISIONS.

>> AND WHAT POSITION DOES THAT PUT OUR TRADING PARTNERS IN, SOME OF OUR CLOSEST ALLIES IN AT THIS POINT, BECAUSE IF YOU'RE TO BE AN OPTIMIST, YOU SAY, OKAY, LISTEN, IT IS CLEAR THE PRESIDENT IS WILLING TO NEGOTIATE, EUROPEAN ECONOMISTS WROTE TO CLIENTS IT STRENGTHENS THE VIEW THAT DONALD TRUMP WILL BE FLEXIBLE IN THE END, BUT THERE IS REASON FOR CONCERN AS WELL, BECAUSE YOU LOOK AT THESE RATES, THEY'RE VERY SIMILAR AT LEAST IN THESE LETTERS HE WROTE TO 14 COUNTRIES TO THE INITIAL RATES ON LIBERATION DAY BACK IN APRIL THAT SPOOKED THE MARKETS.

>> EXACTLY.

I THINK THAT PEOPLE INITIALLY INTERPRETED THE LIBERATION DAY TARIFFS AS NEGOTIATING TACTIC, AS VERY HIGH RATES, YOU KNOW, FROM WHICH COUNTRIES WOULD NEGOTIATE DOWN.

AND, REMEMBER, WE HAVE VERY LOW OVERALL TARIFFS WITH MOST IF NOT ALL OF OUR TRADING PARTNERS.

SO I THINK THE HOPE AMONG THEM WAS THAT THEY WOULD BE ABLE TO NEGOTIATE TARIFFS DOWN TO SOMETHING CLOSE TO ZERO PERCENT OR IF NOT ZERO PERCENT EXACTLY, SOMETHING, YOU KNOW, JUST SLIGHTLY ABOVE THAT.

BUT WHAT WE HAVE SEEN WITH THE DEALS THAT HAVE BEEN ANNOUNCED SO FAR, FIRST WITH THE UK, THEN WITH CHINA, NOW WITH VIETNAM AND NOW THESE 14 LETTERS THAT WENT OUT YESTERDAY IS THAT THE ADMINISTRATION IS FLEXIBLE IN THE SENSE THAT IT IS WILLING TO COME DOWN A LITTLE BIT FROM LIBERATION DAY, BUT WE'RE STILL TALKING ABOUT VERY HIGH TARIFFS.

10% ON THE UK, YOU KNOW, TARIFFS BETWEEN 25% TO 40% ON THE COUNTRIES THAT WERE ANNOUNCED YESTERDAY.

THESE ARE NOT THE NORM FOR GLOBAL TRADE ARRANGEMENTS.

THESE ARE EXTREMELY HIGH.

>> RIGHT.

AND AS WE NOTED, AT LEAST IN THESE 14 LETTERS, THE MINIMUM RATE HERE APPEARS TO BE 25% AND IT ONLY GOES UP, AND HE'S ASKING FOR QUITE A BIT OF CONCESSIONS AS WELL.

HE WANTS MORE THAN JUST LOWER TRADE BARRIERS, HE WANTS COUNTRIES TO MOVE MANUFACTURING BACK TO THE UNITED STATES.

THESE TYPE OF MOVES REALLY AS WE NOTED SPOOKED THE MARKETS BACK IN APRIL.

YES, THE STOCK MARKET, BUT MORE SIGNIFICANTLY PERHAPS THE BOND MARKET, WE SAW YIELDS, TREASURY YIELDS SPIKE TO LEVELS THAT EVEN CONCERNED PRESIDENT TRUMP AND THUS HIS DELAY.

WHAT IS TO SAY THAT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN AGAIN IN A FEW WEEKS' TIME?

>> YOU KNOW IT COULD.

IT IS VERY HARD TO PREDICT THE MARKETS AND THERE ARE A LOT OF DYNAMICS HAPPENING AT THE SAME TIME.

BUT, LOOK, I THINK THERE ARE SEVERAL THINGS THAT ARE CONVERGING AT ONCE.

YOU HAVE ON THE ONE HAND THIS TARIFF POLICY THAT THE ADMINISTRATION HAS ANNOUNCED, WHICH IS MAKING IT VERY CLEAR THAT IT NO LONGER SEES THE UNITED STATES AS CENTRAL TO THE UNITED STATES -- TO THE GLOBAL TRADING SYSTEM.

AND BY EXTENSION, THE GLOBAL FINANCIAL SYSTEM.

YOU THEN ALSO HAVE THE DEBATES IN CONGRESS OVER THE TAX CUTS BEING EXTENDED.

AND THE FACT THAT THE BILL THAT THEY PASSED INCREASES OUR DEBT AGAINST WHAT SHOULD HAVE HAPPENED UNDER CURRENT LAW, BY SEVERAL TRILLION DOLLARS OVER THE NEXT TEN YEARS.

AND SO YOU HAVE A MARKET THAT IS AT THE SAME TIME CONCERNED ABOUT OUR DEBT TRAJECTORY AND JUST THE SHEER AMOUNT OF GOVERNMENT PAPER FLOATING AROUND.

SO I THINK THESE TWO THINGS TOGETHER, NUMBER ONE, ARE DEFINITELY GOING TO RAISE YIELDS AND, NUMBER TWO, ARE GOING TO MAKE MARKETS START TO QUESTION, YOU KNOW, THE SAFE HARBOR INVESTMENT PREMIUM THE UNITED STATES HAS ENJOYED AS BEING A PLACE WHERE YOU GET SAFETY AND SECURITY AND RELATIVE CALM IN MARKETS, THEY'RE BEGINNING TO QUESTION THAT, WHICH IS GOING TO LEAD TO HIGHER INTEREST RATES WHICH AFFECT BOTH BUSINESSES AND CONSUMERS IN THE END.

>> WE SAW THE PRESIDENT TODAY TOUT THE REVENUE THEY SAY AND THE TREASURY SECRETARY SAID WAS ALREADY BROUGHT IN FROM SOME OF THE TARIFFS.

$100 BILLION THUS FAR, BY THE END OF THE YEAR, COULD BE OVER $300 BILLION AND AFTER SLAMMING THE CBO, THEN SAYING THE CBO THINKING IT IS GOING TO BE HIGHER.

THAT'S A HEAD SCRATCHER BECAUSE IS THE GOAL ULTIMATELY TO BRING IN MORE REVENUE PERHAPS TO PAY DOWN HIS BIG BEAUTIFUL BILL OR IS IT TO ACTUALLY CHANGE THE ECONOMIC STRUCTURE HERE IN THE UNITED STATES AND OF THE WORLD REALLY AND BRING BACK MANUFACTURING AND NEGOTIATE LOWER DEALS BECAUSE IT SEEMS LIKE THE TWO CAN'T BE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE.

>> RIGHT.

THE -- LET'S BE CLEAR, FIRST OF ALL, TARIFFS ARE A TAX, A TAX ON AMERICANS, WHEN YOU RAISE TARIFF RATES, YOU DO RAISE REVENUE UNLESS YOU RAISE TARIFF RATES TO EXTRAORDINARILY HIGH RATES AND THEN YOU START LOSING REVENUE FROM THAT.

BUT YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT THAT THE TWO GOALS OF THIS TARIFF POLICY ARE AT ODDS WITH ONE ANOTHER.

BECAUSE ON THE ONE HAND, THIS ADMINISTRATION WANTS TO RAISE REVENUE, TO OFFSET THE COST OF THE TAX CUT EXTENSION, WHICH, YOU KNOW, TO BE ABSOLUTELY FAIR, I THINK THAT THAT IS A NOBLE GOAL TO HAVE.

BUT ON THE OTHER HAND, THEY WANT AMERICANS TO BE BUYING FEWER IMPORTS.

AND TO BE -- AND FOR THERE TO BE MORE RESHORING OF DIFFERENT INDUSTRIES.

WELL, THE FEWER IMPORTS THAT AMERICANS BUY, THE LESS THAT WE RAISE IN TARIFF REVENUE AND THE LESS SUCCESSFUL IT IS ON THAT GOAL.

SO, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE TO CHOOSE ONE OF THEM.

EITHER TARIFFS ARE GOING TO BE A REVENUE RAISER THAT, YOU KNOW, OVERALL LOWERED THE DEFICIT, I WOULD NOTE THEY STILL DON'T RAISE ENOUGH REVENUE TO COVER THE COST OF THIS TAX BILL, OR YOU HAVE A POLICY THAT IS TRYING TO GET AMERICANS TO BUY FEWER IMPORTS.

THE TWO OF THOSE CAN'T CO-EXIST AS GOALS.

>> ERNIE, WE KNOW THE YALE BUDGET LAB ESTIMATED THE EFFECTS OF U.S. TARIFFS AND RETALIATION IMPLEMENTED THIS YEAR THROUGH JULY 7th, WHICH WOULD INCLUDE THE TWO FRAMEWORK DEALS IN THAT BEING WITH THE UNITED KINGDOM AND VIETNAM.

WHAT HAVE YOU FOUND?

>> SO, SO FAR, IF YOU LOOK AT EVERYTHING THAT HAS BEEN DONE IN 2025 SO FAR, SO, THE TARIFFS THAT HAVE BEEN ANNOUNCED, THE 14 LETTERS THAT WENT OUT YESTERDAY, THE DEALS WITH VIETNAM, CHINA AND UK, ALL TOGETHER, YOU KNOW, THAT WOULD INCREASE THE AVERAGE EFFECTIVE TARIFF RATE IN THE UNITED STATES TO 17.5%.

TO PUT THAT IN PERSPECTIVE, WE STARTED THE YEAR AT 2.5%.

17.5% IS THE HIGHEST RATE SINCE 1934, SINCE THE DAYS OF THE SMOOT HOLLY TARIFF AND THE GREAT DEPRESSION.

FOR CONSUMERS ESPECIALLY, THAT'S GOING TO MEAN HIGHER PRICES OVER THE NEXT COUPLE OF YEARS.

WE THINK AROUND 1.7% HIGHER PRICES, WHICH FOR THE TYPICAL AMERICAN HOUSEHOLD IS LIKE LOSING $2300 A YEAR.

BUT WHEN YOU OPEN UP THE HOOD AND DIG EVEN DEEPER, THAT'S NOT EVERY AMERICAN FAMILY IS GOING TO FEEL THAT SAME 1.7%.

LOWER INCOME FAMILIES IN PARTICULAR ARE GOING TO BE HIT EVEN HARDER BECAUSE LOW INCOME FAMILIES ARE PARTICULARLY SENSITIVE TO TARIFFS.

THEY SPEND A GREATER SHARE OF THEIR INCOME IN GENERAL AND THEY SPEND A GREATER SHARE OF THEIR BUDGET ON IMPORTS.

SO THE IMPACT ON THE LOWEST INCOME AMERICANS RELATIVE TO THE HIGHEST INCOME AMERICANS IS THREE TIMES AS MUCH BECAUSE THESE TARIFFS ARE REGRESSIVE TAX.

>> AND YOU DON'T GIVE US SPECIFIC DEADLINE OR TIMELINE AS TO WHEN THIS WILL BE FELT.

BUT WE ALREADY HEAR THIS ADMINISTRATION PUSHING BACK, STEVEN MORAN THIS MORNING SAYING WE'RE NOT SEEING PRICES IMPACTED, DESPITE THE FACT WE HAVE SEEN A NUMBER OF ECONOMISTS, YOURSELF INCLUDED, WARNING THAT THAT WOULD INDEED HAPPEN, HE SAID, YES, IT IS POSSIBLE FOR VOLATILITY IN THE FUTURE, SURE, RARE EVENTS HAPPEN, NEVER SAY NEVER, BUT THERE IS NO EVIDENCE OF THIS HAPPENING, YOU HAVE THAT FROM THE CEA CHAIR, THE TREASURY SECRETARY OVER THE WEEKEND WITH DANA BASH WHEN SHE WAS QUOTING FROM SOME OF YOUR FINDINGS AS IT RELATES TO THE BIG, BEAUTIFUL BILL, HE JUST SAID, LISTEN, THEY'RE ALL EX-BIDEN OFFICIALS, SO I THINK WE CAN JUST DISCOUNT EVERYTHING THEY SAY.

HOW DO YOU RESPOND TO THAT?

>> I WOULD SAY, FIRST OF ALL, LOOK, WE'RE NONPARTISAN, WE HAVE DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS ON OUR BOARD, OUR PRIORITY IS TO GET THE DATA AND THE ECONOMICS RIGHT, NUMBER ONE.

I WOULD SAY, NUMBER TWO, ON THE EVIDENCE OF PRICE EFFECTS SO FAR, I THINK EVERYONE IN THIS DEBATE WOULD AGREE THAT IT IS VERY HARD TO ISOLATE THE EFFECT OF IMPORTS WHEN WE LOOK AT OVERALL PRICES AND SAY CPI OR THE PCE PRICE INDEX.

BUT HERE IS SOMETHING THAT I WAS LOOKING AT JUST TODAY.

DURABLE GOODS PRICES, SO THE GOODS THAT ARE THE MOST DECEPTABLE AND SENSITIVE TO TARIFFS, THEY WERE FALLING OVER 2023 AND 2024 AT A PRETTY STEADY RATE.

AND THEN AT THE BEGINNING OF THIS YEAR, THAT FALL SWITCHED AND THEY STARTED RISING AGAIN.

SO, YOU KNOW, GOODS PRICES TEND TO DROP OVER TIME.

THAT'S NOT WHAT WE'RE SEEING NOW.

WE'RE SEEING GOODS PRICES START TO RISE AGAIN, WHICH IS VERY UNUSUAL FOR GOODS PRICES.

AND IF YOU COMPARED SORT OF HOW GOODS PRICES HAVE BEHAVED YEAR TO DATE, VERSUS WHERE YOU WOULD HAVE THOUGHT THEY WOULD HAVE GONE, GIVEN WHAT WE SAW IN 2023 AND 2024, THEY'RE 1.2% HIGHER THAN THEY WERE.

THAT'S VERY MUCH CONSISTENT WITH SORT OF THE BEGINNING OF WHAT WE'RE SAYING WILL HAPPEN OVER THE NEXT ONE OR TWO YEARS, RIGHT?

WHICH IS HIGHER PRICES, PARTICULARLY FOR GOODS, PARTICULARLY FOR IMPORTED GOODS.

>> ALL RIGHT.

ERNIE TEDESHCI, I BET WE'LL HAVE YOU BACK IN AUGUST WHEN WE HAVE YET ANOTHER DEADLINE, SO DON'T PLAN ON ANY VACATION THAT WEEK.

SO WE CAN HAVE YOU BACK.

>> I'LL KEEP MY SCHEDULE CLEAR FOR SURE.

>> PLEASE DO THAT FOR US.

IT IS GOOD TO SEE YOU.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> LIKEWISE, THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>>> WELL, IT HAS BEEN JUST OVER THREE YEARS SINCE THE DOBBS DECISION WHICH OVERTURNED ROE V. WADE AND THE WOMAN'S CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO ABORTION IN THE UNITED STATES.

THREE YEARS IN WHICH REPRODUCTIVE HEALTHCARE HAS BEEN SET BACK DECADES.

THE HUMAN IMPACT HAS BEEN MASSIVE AND WE'LL GET INTO THOSE STORIES WITH MY NEXT GUEST AS WELL AS DOMESTIC POLICY LAW WHICH AIMS TO REVOKE MEDICAID FUNDING FOR PLANNED PARENTHOOD.

LET'S SPEAK WITH CAROLINE KIRCHNER, WHO WON A PULITZER PRIZE FOR HER COVERAGE, AND IS NOW A REPORTER FOR "THE NEW YORK TIMES."

THANK YOU FOR JOINING THE PROGRAM.

LET'S START WITH PLANNED PARENTHOOD, BECAUSE AS WE COVERED FOR SO MANY YEARS NOW, IT DOES MORE THAN JUST PROVIDE ABORTION CARE OBVIOUSLY.

IT PROVIDES A GREAT DEAL OF NONABORTION SERVICES FOR WOMEN AND FAMILY PLANNING.

CAN YOU SPELL OUT WHAT IT MEANS FOR THE AVERAGE VIEWER HERE WHO DOESN'T QUITE UNDERSTAND WHAT HAPPENS IF MEDICAID FUNDING IS STRIPPED?

>> WELL, PLANNED PARENTHOOD IS THE NATION'S LARGEST ABORTION PROVIDER AND THIS STRIPS PLANNED PARENTHOOD OF FUNDING.

IT SAID IT SERVED ABOUT A MILLION WOMEN A YEAR WHO HAVE MEDICAID AND AS WE KNOW, MEDICAID CANNOT COVER ABORTION, BUT IT CAN COVER THE WIDE ARRAY OF OTHER SERVICES THAT PLANNED PARENTHOOD PROVIDES.

THINGS LIKE BIRTH CONTROL, PLAN B, THINGS LIKE CANCER SCREENINGS AND STD TESTING, AND WHAT PLANNED PARENTHOOD IS SAYING IS THAT WITHOUT THIS FUNDING, APPROXIMATELY ONE-THIRD OF ITS CLINICS, 600 CLINICS TOTAL, ONE-THIRD OF THOSE ARE AT RISK OF CLOSING.

SO, YOU HAVE ABORTION RIGHTS ADVOCATES HERE TALKING ABOUT THIS AS A, QUOTE, BACK DOOR ABORTION BAN BECAUSE SO MANY CLINICS WILL BE FORCED TO SHUTTER.

>> RIGHT.

AND THESE ARE IN STATES WE SHOULD NOTE WHERE ABORTION IS LEGAL.

>> RIGHT.

EXACTLY.

ESPECIALLY DURING THE ELECTION, YOU HEARD A LOT OF TALK OF A NATIONAL ABORTION BAN.

OBVIOUSLY THAT IS WIDELY UNPOPULAR.

IT DOESN'T SEEM TO BE GOING ANYWHERE.

BUT WHAT ABORTION RIGHTS ADVOCATES ARE SAYING IS THAT, YOU KNOW, WITH THIS HANGE, WITH THIS BILL, IT IS GOING TO MAKE ABORTION SO MUCH HARDER TO ACCESS WITHOUT THESE CLINICS AND WITHOUT THIS FUNDING.

>> LET ME ASK YOU ABOUT HHS SECRETARY ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR.

ASKING THE FDA TO ONCE AGAIN REVIEW THE LATEST DATA ON THE ABORTION PILL MIFEPRISTONE.

WE SPENT A LOT OF TIME COVERING IT OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS.

THIS IS A MEDICATION THAT HAD BEEN APPROVED FOR USE BY THE FDA DECADES AGO AND HAS BEEN PROVEN, I BELIEVE, TO BE SAFER, CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, THAN TYLENOL.

HERE WE ARE AGAIN QUESTIONING WHETHER FROM THE HHS SECRETARY NO LESS QUESTIONING THE SAFETY OF THIS PILL AGAIN.

WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF IT?

>> WELL, MIFEPRISTONE IS USED IN OVER HALF OF ABORTIONS NATIONWIDE AND, YOU KNOW, THERE HAVE BEEN RESTRICTIONS THAT HAVE BEEN RECENTLY ROLLED BACK UNDER THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION.

NOW MIFEPRISTONE CAN BE SENT THROUGH THE MAIL.

AND ESPECIALLY IN THE WAKE OF THE DOBBS DECISION, THAT HAS ALLOWED A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO WOULD NOT OTHERWISE HAVE ABORTION ACCESS TO ACCESS ABORTIONS THROUGH GETTING PILLS IN THE MAIL.

AND SO ONE I THINK DISTINCT POSSIBILITY WE COULD SEE AS THIS ADMINISTRATION LOOKS AT THESE RESTRICTIONS OF MIFEPRISTONE, WE COULD SEE THEM SAYING, YOU MUST HAVE AN IN PERSON APPOINTMENT.

SO, NOW THAT MAKES IT VERY HARD IF YOU ARE A PERSON IN A STATE WITH AN ABORTION BAN.

THAT'S REALLY THE WAY THAT WE HAVE SEEN WOMEN CONTINUE TO ACCESS ABORTION IN THESE MANY, MANY STATES THAT HAVE NOW BANNED THE PROCEDURE.

THEY HAVE BEEN GETTING IT THROUGH THE MAIL.

AND, YOU KNOW, AND THIS ADMINISTRATION COULD TAKE STEPS THAT WOULD MAKE THAT MUCH, MUCH MORE DIFFICULT.

>> IS THERE ANY LEGITIMATE REASON WHY YOU WOULD HAVE THE HHS SECRETARY ASK THE FDA TO ONCE AGAIN LOOK BACK ON THE EFFICACY AND SAFETY OF THIS DRUG THAT WE NOTED HAD BEEN APPROVED FOR DECADES NOW.

I DON'T BELIEVE THERE HAD BEEN ANY NEW RESEARCH SUGGESTING THERE IS CAUSE FOR CONCERN, HAS THERE?

>> I MEAN, THERE WAS A STUDY THAT CAME OUT THAT WAS PUT OUT BY A CONSERVATIVE POLICY GROUP ABOUT A MONTH AGO NOW THAT RAISED CONCERNS.

BUT, YOU KNOW, LEADING MEDICAL ASSOCIATIONS ALL AGREE THIS MEDICATION IS EXTREMELY SAFE AND EFFECTIVE AND YOU HAVE ALL THOSE ORGANIZATIONS SAYING, YOU KNOW, IT IS COMPLETELY SAFE TO SEND THIS THROUGH THE MAIL.

SO, YOU KNOW, I THINK EVERYBODY IS WAITING TO SEE WHAT THE HEALTH SECRETARY IS GOING TO END UP SAYING ABOUT THIS.

>> WELL, IT JUST HAS BEEN OVER THREE YEARS NOW SINCE ROE WAS OVERTURNED.

YOU WON A PULITZER PRIZE FOR COVERING THE IMPACT OF THAT DECISION OVER A COURSE OF TIME AND YOU WROTE A WIDELY READ PIECE ABOUT A TEXAS TEENAGER WHO WANTED A ABORTION, COULDN'T GET ONE AND ENDED UP HAVING TWINS.

JUST TALK TO US ABOUT SOME OF THE REAL LIFE STORIES AND THE IMPACT THIS IVE ROLLBACK, THAT IT'S HAD ON THE COUNTRY.

>> I MEAN, I THINK THE IMPACT IS ENORMOUS AND WE ARE JUST BEGINNING TO SEE WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE.

I MEAN, YOU KNOW, THAT YOUNG WOMAN THAT I FOLLOWED, I'M STILL IN TOUCH WITH HER, AND SHE NOW, YOU KNOW, SHE HAS TWIN BABY GIRLS.

I THINK THEY'RE NOT BABIES ANYMORE, THEY'RE 3 YEARS OLD, AND SHE IS LIVING A LIFE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THAN THE ONE THAT SHE THOUGHT SHE WOULD BE LIVING.

BUT BEYOND HER AND BEYOND THAT SITUATION, I MEAN, WE KNOW THERE ARE CERTAINLY, YOU KNOW, MANY WOMEN OUT THERE WHO HAVE BECOME MOTHERS WHEN THEY WERE NOT INTENDING TO BE LARGELY BECAUSE OF THESE BANS, BUT EVEN BEYOND THAT, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE A LOT OF, YOU KNOW, VARIED EXPERIENCES THAT PEOPLE HAVE HAD BECAUSE OF THESE BANS.

I TALKED TO A LOT OF WOMEN WHO HAVE, YOU KNOW, WERE INTENT THAT THEY WOULD GET AN ABORTION EVEN IF THEY WERE IN STATES WITH BANS AND THEY HAVE, YOU KNOW, ORDERED PILLS ONLINE AND THEY HAVE BEEN SCARED BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, WHILE THAT MEDICATION IS -- THIS WAS SAID SAFE AND EFFECTIVE, THEY ARE SCARED THEY'RE GOING TO GET ARRESTED, THEY ARE SCARED THAT, YOU KNOW, SOMETHING MIGHT HAPPEN TO THEM AND THEY DON'T WANT TO GO TO THE HOSPITAL.

RIGHT NOW I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT TO SAY WOMEN CANNOT GET ARRESTED FOR HAVING AN ABORTION UNDER THE CURRENT ABORTION LAWS.

BUT I THINK THE OVERARCHING POINT IS THAT THERE IS SO MUCH FEAR AROUND THIS PROCEDURE RIGHT NOW, ESPECIALLY IN THOSE STATES WITH BANS.

>> THE WOMEN CAN'T GET ARRESTED, BUT CAN THE DOCTORS?

>> CERTAINLY IN MANY OF THE STATES, YEAH, THE DOCTORS CAN BE ARRESTED.

>> ONE OF PRESIDENT TRUMP'S MOST POPULAR CAMPAIGN PROMISES WAS TO MAKE IVF FREE.

THIS WAS POPULAR AMONG BOTH DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS.

HAS HE LIVED UP TO THAT PLEDGE?

>> I MEAN, WE ARE ALL WAITING FOR THE WHITE HOUSE TO RELEASE A HIGHLY ANTICIPATED IVF REPORT THAT IS GOING TO SAY WHAT HE'S GOING TO DO.

SO, I'VE BEEN TALKING WITH A LOT OF DIFFERENT PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN MEETING WITH THE ADMINISTRATION, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE CLEARLY VERY INTERESTED AND VERY, YOU KNOW, COMMITTED TO DOING SOMETHING I THINK IS FAIR TO SAY ON THE ISSUE OF INFERTILITY BECAUSE THEY HAVE BEEN TAKING A LOT OF MEETINGS WITH PEOPLE, REALLY, ACROSS THE SPECTRUM ON THE ISSUE OF IVF.

THEY'RE MEETING BOTH WITH CONSERVATIVE POLICY GROUPS THAT ARE OPPOSED TO IVF AND INTERESTED IN SORT OF OTHER WAYS OF TREATING INFERTILITY AND THEY ARE MEETING WITH, YOU KNOW, IVF DOCTORS, AND, YOU KNOW, VARIOUS LEADERS IN THE IVF INDUSTRY.

SO WE REALLY DON'T KNOW AT THIS POINT WHAT EXACTLY THEY'RE GOING TO DO, BUT, YOU KNOW, I THINK IT IS FAIR TO SAY WE'LL HAVE SOME ANSWERS PROBABLY IN THE NEXT COUPLE OF WEEKS HERE.

>> AND THIS TIES WITH THE REAL PRONATALIST POSITION THAT IS UNIQUE TO PRESIDENTIAL ADMINISTRATIONS, I DON'T KNOW WE SPENT THIS MUCH TIME FOCUSING ON THIS ISSUE.

YOU HAVE.

AND YOU HAVE DONE SOME RESEARCH AND REPORTING.

WHAT CAN YOU TELL US ABOUT THAT PUSH?

>> MULTIPLE LEADERS IN THIS ADMINISTRATION HAVE BEEN VERY CLEAR.

JD VANCE, YOU KNOW, A FEW DAYS AFTER TAKING OFFICE, HE SAID I WANT MORE BABIES IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS CALLED FOR A BABY BOOM.

AND THERE ARE MANY IN THE ADMINISTRATION THAT ARE LOOKING AT WAYS TO GET WOMEN TO HAVE MORE CHILDREN.

I REPORTED EARLIER THIS YEAR THAT THEY -- VARIOUS ADMINISTRATION OFFICIALS WERE MEETING WITH FAMILY POLICY GROUPS AND DIFFERENT, YOU KNOW, JUST DIFFERENT PEOPLE IN THE FAMILY POLICY SPACE.

REALLY JUST HEARING OUT IDEAS FOR HOW TO, YOU KNOW, GET THE BIRTH RATE UP.

THERE IS A LOT OF CONCERN THAT THE BIRTH RATE IS DROPPING AND, YOU KNOW, THEY WANT TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THAT.

>> YEAH, AND THAT IS ECHOED BY ELON MUSK TOO, WHO AT ONE POINT WAS VERY CLOSE AS AN ADVISER IN THIS ADMINISTRATION, NOT SO MUCH NOW.

CAROLINE KITCHENER, THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME AND YOUR REPORTING, APPRECIATE IT.

>> THANKS SO MUCH.

>>> WE TURN NOW TO BROADWAY, WHERE AWARD WINNING PLAYWRIGHT BRANDEN JACOBS-JENKINS MADE HISTORY AT THIS YEAR'S TONY AWARDS BECOMING THE FIRST BLACK PLAYWRIGHT SINCE 1987 TO WIN BEST PLAY FOR HIS PRODUCTION OF "PURPOSE."

THE PLAY'S CARRIE YOUNG TOOK HOME AN AWARD FOR HER PERFORMANCE.

IT IS A BEHIND THE SCENES LOOK AT AN AGING CIVIL RIGHTS ICON'S HOUSEHOLD, AS THEY NAVIGATE COMPLEX FAMILY DYNAMICS THAT PERHAPS MANY OF US CAN RELATE TO.

AND JACOBS-JENKINS JOINS HARI SREENIVASAN TO DISCUSS WHY HE CREATED THIS WORK.

>> THANKS.

BRENDEN JACOBS-JENKINS, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

YOUR PLAY "PURPOSE" WHICH WON TWO OF THE SIX TONY WARDS IT WAS NOMINATED FOR, A PULITZER PRIZE FOR DRAMA, FOR FOLKS WHO WERE NOT LUCKY ENOUGH TO BE ABLE TO SEE IT ON BROADWAY, CAN YOU GIVE US A DIGEST OF WHAT IS THE PLOT?

>> "PURPOSE" IS A FAMILY DRAMA IN THE AMERICAN MODE ABOUT TWO GENERATIONS OF A FAMILY THAT DESCEND ON A HOME TO CELEBRATE THE HOMECOMING OF ONE OF THE YOUNGEST SONS FROM A PERIOD OF INCARCERATION.

AND THE PARENTS ARE BOTH SORT OF TANGENTIAL LUMINARIES OF THE CIVIL RIGHTS ERA.

SORT OF A DYNASTIC FAMILY, BLACK DYNASTIC FAMILY AND THE YOUNGEST SON WHO IS A PHOTOGRAPHER BRINGS ALONG A FRIEND AND HILARITY ENSUES.

FAMILY TRAPPED IN A HOUSE, BUT HOPEFULLY -- >> DURING A SNOWSTORM, THROW IN SOME TENSION, A LITTLE BIT OF SEXUALITY IN THERE, YEAH.

WHAT MADE YOU WANT TO PICK ON THIS KIND OF A FAMILY?

BECAUSE IS THIS KIND OF MODELED AROUND JESSE JACKSON FAMILY?

>> WELL, I WAS VERY INTERESTED IN WRITING A PLAY ABOUT A BLACK POLITICAL DYNASTY AND THERE AREN'T THAT MANY.

AND THERE IS A FEW MODELS I DREW FROM.

I THINK THE JACKSONS ARE THE MOST LEGIBLE TO PEOPLE.

I WAS CURIOUS ABOUT THE LEGACY OF THAT ERA, THINKING OF THE POLITICS AND THE IDEOLOGICAL IN SOME WAYS AND CULTURAL WARFARE ACTUALLY COMES AT A COST AND THAT COST OFTEN HAPPENS IN THE FAMILY SPACE OR FAMILY UNIT.

I WAS INTERESTING IN DIGGING THROUGH SORT OF THE SCARS AND LEGACIES OF THE MID20th CENTURY AS IT AFFECTED THE ENTIRE GENERATION OF AMERICANS AND HOW THAT MIGHT HAVE TRICKLED DOWN TO THEIR KIDS.

REALLY JUST TRYING TO EXPLORE THE KIND OF INNER GENERATIONAL EFFECTS OF AMERICAN POLITICAL LIFE.

>> WHAT IS IT THAT PEOPLE ARE FINDING CONNECTING TO?

WHY IS THAT AMERICAN FAMILY SUCH AN INTERESTING VEHICLE TO TELL ALL THESE OTHER STORIES?

>> I'VE BEEN HEARING A LOT OF AMAZING AUDIENCE MEMBERS TELL ME ABOUT HOW THEY SAW THEMSELVES IN THE FAMILY, THAT ULTIMATELY, YOU KNOW, I THINK FAMILY DRAMAS ARE THE AMERICAN PAST TIME.

WE LOVE TALKING ABOUT OUR FAMILIES, LOVE HEARING GOSSIP ABOUT OTHER FAMILIES, WE MAKE TV SHOWS ABOUT FAMILIES.

I THINK IT DOES KIND OF OPERATE IN THAT WORLD AS WELL, WHILE ALSO TOUCHING ON THESE MORE UNIQUE SUBJECTS.

I ALSO THINK THAT I WROTE THIS PLAY WITH THE THEATER COMPANY, THE WORLD'S PREMIERE ACTING ENSEMBLE BASED IN CHICAGO, AND THEY'RE JUST GIVING, LIKE, A SET OF KILLER PERFORMANCES.

FIVE OF OUR SIX ACTORS WERE NOMINATED FOR TONY AWARDS, ONE OF THEM WON.

IT IS LIKE A FEAST IF YOU'RE INTO SEEING SOME INCREDIBLE ACTORS GO AT EACH OTHER.

IT IS SPECTACULAR.

YEAH.

>> I WAS SITTING IN THE THEATER, IT WAS INTERESTING TO ME BECAUSE YOU FELT LIKE YOU WERE A FLY ON THE WALL, WATCHING, YOU KNOW.

YOU WERE, LIKE, LOOKING IN THE WINDOW BUT COULD HEAR IN GREAT DETAIL ALL THE STUFF HAPPENING AT THIS DINNER TABLE WHERE THERE IS A REALLY KIND OF FEISTY SCENE.

WHAT IS IT THAT YOU WANT TO EXPOSE IN THESE CONVERSATIONS, IN THESE SPACES WHERE PEOPLE ARE SPEAKING IN A WAY THAT THEY DON'T THINK ANYBODY IS LISTENING?

>> YEAH, I GUESS I WANTED TO EXPLORE A LOT ABOUT THIS IDEA OF SHAME IN THE FAMILY AND HOW TO OPERATE, YOU KNOW, THAT EVERYONE IN THE FAMILY IS MANIPULATING OUR NAVIGATING THEIR RELATIONSHIP TO SHAME AND IT IS THE THING THAT MAKES LOVE SO DIFFICULT, I FIND, IN THESE FAMILIAL CONTEXTS AND YOU'RE SEEING PEOPLE WHO LOVE EACH OTHER HITTING THEIR HEAD AGAINST THIS EGOTISTIC RELATIONSHIP TO SOMETHING THEY ARE NOT WILLING TO SHARE.

AND THAT ENGINE IS FOR ME IN EVERY SCENE, ESPECIALLY AT THE DINNER TABLE, WHICH PEOPLE ARE REALLY LOVING, I COMPARED IT TO THE GLADIATORS AND THE ARENA AND NO ONE LEAVES THE SAME.

THAT'S ONE OF THE HIGH POINTS FOR PEOPLE AT OUR SHOW.

>> YOU ARE APPARENTLY THE GUEST OF HONOR.

>> NO, FATHER.

THAT WAS JUST ME ON AUTO PILOT.

YOU ARE THE HEAD OF THIS FAMILY.

>> BUCKLE UP!

>> OKAY, SO LET'S LOOK AT SOME OF THE CHARACTERS, ONE BY ONE.

YOU GOT HARRY LENNOX FOR MAINSTREAM AUDIENCE, THEY MIGHT REMEMBER HIS FACE FROM A VERY BIG TV SHOW CALLED "BLACK LIST," HE'S A GIFTED ACTOR ON STAGE IF YOU'VE NEVER SEEN HIM.

AND HE'S KIND OF THE FATHER OF THIS FAMILY, BUT HE'S A CIVIL RIGHTS ACTIVIST, AND HE'S JUST GOT THESE DEEP FLAWS AS A FATHER AND A HUSBAND, BUT YOU ALSO DO KIND OF WANT TO ROOT FOR HIM A LITTLE BIT, BECAUSE YOU EMPATHIZE HIM TRYING TO GET THIS CONNECTION.

>> THE THING I DISCOVERED BEING A RECENT PARENT MYSELF IS YOU REALLY DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU DON'T KNOW.

AND YOU CAN LITERALLY DEDICATE YOUR LIFE AND THROW ALL YOUR LOVE INTO THIS SMALL CREATURE AND THEY WILL GROW UP ONE DAY AND SAY, YOU ARE IN MY LIFE.

THAT IS THE JOURNEY OF HAVING TO SORT OF WAKE UP TO THIS -- HIS REPORT CARD ON FATHERING AND THEN WANTING TO ACTUALLY MAKE GOOD ON THAT, PAIR THAT WORK, BUT REALIZE IN SOME WAYS IT IS TOO LATE.

AND ACCEPT CHILDREN WHO THEY HAVE BECOME, THAT'S THE MOST SIGNIFICANT ACT OF RADICAL ACTION FOR HIM IN THE SPACE.

AND ALSO THINKING THROUGH, YOU KNOW, FOR SOMEONE WHO SPENT THEIR ENTIRE LIFE IN THE TRENCHES, FIGHTING FOR FREEDOM, HOW DOES -- WHAT DOES FREEDOM LOOK LIKE?

WHEN YOUR CHILDREN COME UP, WHAT DO THEY GET TO CHOOSE, THEIR EXPERIENCE OF IT?

THAT'S ONE OF THE MORE HIGHFALUTIN PHILOSOPHICAL ARGUMENTS HE'S HAVING INTERNALLY.

>> TONIGHT, WE'RE CELEBRATING MY BELATED BIRTHDAY.

AND HIM BRINGING HOME A -- A FRIEND IS ABOUT THE GREATEST GIFT I COULD HAVE ASKED FOR.

I ALSO COULDN'T HAVE IT ON MY CONSCIENCE, YOU SLIPPING AND SLIDING INTO SOME ROADSIDE DITCH ON THE WAY TO NEW YORK.

ALL BECAUSE MY SON DECIDED TO BE WITHHOLDING.

SO, AS THE BIRTHDAY GIRL, I'M GOING TO NEED YOU TO GIVE ME WHAT I WANT.

>> CLAUDINE JASPER, SHE IS, YOU KNOW, IN THE BEGINNING, YOU'RE LIKE AN OVERBEARING MOM FIGURE, BUT SHE'S KIND OF THE GLUE THAT KEPT THIS IDEA OF A LEGACY THROUGH HOOK AND BY CROOK ALIVE.

>> I THINK TO ME SHE EMBODIES A CERTAIN IDEA OF A TRADITIONAL MATRIARCH.

AND WHAT THAT MEANT TO TAKE THAT ON AS A CALLING TO BELIEVE IN THE DEEPEST OF YOURSELF THAT YOUR JOB IS TO KEEP A FAMILY ALIVE AND KEEP IT TOGETHER AND BE A QUIET PROTECTOR BEHIND THE SCENES.

SHE REALLY, LIKE A LOT OF THE WOMEN OF THIS GENERATION, YOU KNOW, IT WAS A COLLABORATION WHAT THEY WERE DOING, SOCIALLY, THE MALE WAS ALWAYS PUBLIC FACING PART OF IT.

AND WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO WAKE UP IN A WORLD WHERE THOSE GENDER DYNAMICS ARE QUESTIONED DAILY.

WE'RE LOOKING AT WOMEN RISING TO VERY PROMINENT PLACES IN THE POLITICAL SYSTEM THAT WAS JUST UNHEARD OF.

AND SHE WAS GROWING UP AND HER MODELS ARE BEING FORGED IN, YOU KNOW.

>> NAS AND JUNIOR ARE TWO OF THE SONS, THE BROTHERS IN THIS HOUSEHOLD.

NAS PLAYED BY JOHN MICHAEL HILL, THE NARRATOR OF THIS PLAY, AND YOU SEE THEM KIND OF STRUGGLING WITH THE RIPPLE EFFECTS OF THE SAME LEGACY, RIGHT?

THE NAME THAT THEY CARRY AND WHY AND ALL THE KIND OF BAGGAGE THAT COMES WITH IT, EVEN THOUGH YOUR FATHER WAS A WELL RESPECTED CIVIL RIGHTS LEADER.

>> YEAH, I THINK FOR ME THEY'RE VERY DIFFERENT BROTHERS, RIGHT?

YOU GOT ONE BROTHER WHO DOUBLED DOWN ON THE LEGACY, BOUGHT THE WHOLE THING, HOG AND ALL, I THINK THAT'S THE PHRASE, BUT HE HAS THE FATHER'S NAME, HE TRIED TO RE-ENACT THE STEPS HIS FATHER DID AND HAD THIS OTHER SON WHO DID THE OPPOSITE, HE RAN AWAY TO BECOME A NATURE PHOTOGRAPHER AND SPEND HIS LIFE IN ISOLATION OUT IN THE WOODS WHERE, YOU KNOW, RABBITS AND SQUIRRELS DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT -- AND TRYING TO MAKE SENSE OF HOW THESE TWO BELONG TO THE SAME FAMILY IS ONE OF THE GREAT JOYS OF WORKING THIS OUT, THESE ACTORS AND FOR ME I THINK I'M TRYING TO EXPLORE NEW VERSIONS AND ITERATIONS OF MASCULINITY, OF, YOU KNOW, CREATIVE LIFE AND THIS IDEA OF, LIKE, THESE CHILDREN WERE BORN IN THE SPACE WHERE THEY COULD KIND OF TAKE THEIR FREEDOM FOR GRANTED AND FOR THEM THEY'RE BOTH EXERCISING WHAT THEY FELT FREEDOM SHOULD BE AND HAVE RECEIVED INTERESTING FORMS OF BLOWBACK FROM THE WORLD IN WHICH THEY FOUND THEMSELVES.

>> LET ME ASK, ALANA RAVEN PLAYS JASPER JR.'S WIFE, MORGAN JASPER.

>> I SAID BEWARE, WATCH OUT.

>> BEWARE OF WHAT?

>> LIFE, EVERYTHING, BEWARE.

>> HER CHARACTER, THE PREMISE IS VERY INTERESTING.

SHE IS ABOUT TO HEAD TO PRISON AFTER HER HUSBAND GOT OUT FOR FINANCIAL CRIMES THAT HE COMMITTED.

SO, WHY DESIGN THIS CHARACTER IN THIS WAY, WHAT MOTIVATED THAT?

>> I WAS INSPIRED BY THE KIND OF COLLATERAL DAMAGE SOME OF THE POLITICAL CRIMES AND INTERESTED IN TRACKING THROUGH SOLOMON JASPER JR. AND MORGAN THE EVOLUTIONS OF THAT KIND OF IDEA OF THE TRADITIONAL MARRIAGE WE WERE TALKING ABOUT, RIGHT?

SHE'S DEFINITELY NOT THE SAME KIND OF WIFE THAT THE MOTHER-IN-LAW IS AND EVEN IN THE RAISING OF HER CHILDREN, YOU KNOW, HAD DIFFERENT EXPERIENCES, DIFFERENT LANGUAGE ABOUT SOME OF THEIR NEWER DIVERGENCE SHE HAS TO NAVIGATE AND SHE REALLY BECOMES THIS IMPORTANT COUNTERPOINT TO THE ROMANCE THAT THE FAMILY HAS BY ITSELF.

SHE FEELS LIKE AN INNOCENT BYSTANDER WHO HAS BEEN SIDESWIPED.

AND SHE COMES FROM A DIFFERENT BACKGROUND.

IN SOME WAYS SHE GREW UP ENTHRALLED OF THE FAMILY'S ANTHOLOGY.

WE WERE THE PEOPLE YOU GUYS WERE MARCHING FOR AND I GET HERE AND YOU ALL FEEL LIKE CRIMINALS.

THAT'S -- IT IS A DIFFERENT KIND OF EXPERIENCE OF HOW THOSE IMAGES OF THAT ERA ULTIMATELY CAME TO POLITICS ITSELF.

ITS OWN KIND OF BAG OF TRICKS.

>> YOU SAID YOUR DADDY WAS SOME SORT OF REVEREND, BUT NOT LIKE THIS KIND OF REVEREND.

NOT LIKE AN ORGANIZED MARCHES REVEREND, NOT LIKE I USED TO KICK IT WITH ROSA PARKS REVEREND, NOT LIKE AN MLK SHRINE IN THE LIVING ROOM REVEREND.

DIDN'T HIS SON GO TO JAIL?

WAIT, THAT'S YOUR BROTHER.

>> ARI YOUNG, THE ACTRESS WHO WON THE TONY FOR BEST FEATURED ACTRESS IN A PLAY AND SHE -- HER CHARACTER IS AZIZA HOUSTON, WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF HAVING HER HERE?

IS SHE THE AUDIENCE OBSERVE, THE OUTSIDER COMING IN?

WHY DID YOU WRITE HER IN THE WAY YOU DID?

>> MY TEACHER, SHE USE TOAD D T TWO KINDS OF PLAYS, A STRANGER GOING ON A JOURNEY OR THE STRANGER WHO COMES TO TOWN.

SHE'S THE STRANGER WHO COMES TO TOWN.

I WAS INTERESTED IN BRINGING SOMEONE ON STAGE WHO MIGHT EMBODY A DIFFERENT IDEA OR MORE CONTEMPORARY IDEA OF WHAT WE THINK OF AS BLACK POLITICAL ACTION, LIFE, AND THAT CALLING.

SHE KIND OF SPEAKS VERY VIVIDLY ABOUT THIS.

SHE IS ALSO AN EASTER COAST, SORT OF NORTHERN BORN IDEA OF BLACK LIFE THAT SORT OF IS SHOWING UP TO BEING IN CONTRAST TO THIS KIND OF SOUTHERN ORIGIN, CHICAGO, MIDWEST, TRADITIONAL CHURCH BOUND SPACE.

AND SHE REALLY DOES BECOME A CATALYST FOR SELF-REFLECTION FOR A LOT OF FOLKS, BUT MOST IMPORTANTLY HER CONNECTION TO NAS WHO IS -- THIS ISN'T SPOILING ANYTHING, SHE'S ASKS HIM TO FATHER OR SIRE HER CHILD SHE WANTS TO CARRY, WHICH, OF COURSE, IS WHAT CREATES A LOT OF INTERESTING POLITICAL AND EMOTIONAL TENSION INSIDE THE FAMILY.

>> I WONDER, THIS PLAY IT LOOKS AT SO MANY DIFFERENT REALLY KIND OF PERSONAL, HEAVY ISSUES.

BUT WHAT I WAS KIND OF SURPRISED BY WAS THE AMOUNT OF LAUGHTER IN THE AUDIENCE.

I DON'T KNOW IF YOU INTENTIONALLY WERE TRYING TO PLAN THESE KIND OF COMEDIC LINES OR MAYBE IN THE PREVIEWS OR I DON'T KNOW WHERE, YOU SAY, OKAY, THAT ACTUALLY WORKED, I DIDN'T EXPECT THAT TO BE A FUNNY LINE, I THOUGHT THE WAY I WROTE IT, THE INTENTION WAS DIFFERENT OR THE ACTORS DID THEY BRING SOMETHING THAT MADE THAT FUNNY?

>> IT WOULD BE FUNNY IF I CAME OUT HERE AND SAID, LIKE, WHY IS EVERYONE LAUGHING?

I FEEL FOR ME, I WANT TO REFLECT THE EXPERIENCE OF LIFE, WHICH IS FOLK US CUS AS MUCH LAUGHTER AS CRINGING AND LAUGHTER FOR ME IN A GROUP IS ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT PHENOMENONS WE HAVE BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, IT IS SOMETHING YOU DON'T DO WITH A LOT OF SELF-CONSCIOUSNESS AND WHEN YOU SHARE IT WITH STRANGERS, YOU'RE BONDED, YOU'RE CONNECTED, YOU REALIZE YOU SHARE SOME SORT OF POINT OF VIEW ON A SITUATION AND FOR ME, THE AUDIENCE IS REALLY A SPACE TO KIND OF UNITE PEOPLE AND GET PEOPLE TO HEAR EACH OTHER AND TRUST EACH OTHER.

SO, I DO THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, FOR ME, I TOOK THE COMIC ENERGY IN EVERYTHING I DO, BUT I HOPE THAT IT IS, YOU KNOW, ONE OF MANY KIND OF EMOTIONAL STATES OR EXPERIENCES OVER THE COURSE OF THE EVENING.

>> SO HOW DOES A PLAYWRIGHT WORK WITH A DIRECTOR?

FOR SOMEONE VERY OUTSIDE THE THEATER, THE DIRECTOR OF THIS PLAY, PHYLICIA RASHAD, A CERTAIN GENERATION WHO WOULD REMEMBER HER AS CLAIRE HUXTABLE FROM "THE COSBY SHOW" AND HELPED REDEFINE A DIFFERENT VISION OF A BLACK FAMILY IN AMERICA THROUGH THAT TV SHOW.

BUT SHE IS ALSO NOW A SUCCESSFUL DIRECTOR IN HER OWN RIGHT.

WHAT -- WHERE DOES THE DIRECTING START, WHERE DOES THE PLAYWRIGHTING END AND HOW DOES THAT GO BACK AND FORTH?

>> IT VARIES FROM PROJECT TO PROJECT.

IT IS LIKE A MARRIAGE.

NOT EVERY MARRIAGE GIVERS YOU THE SAME RESULTS.

AND PHYLICIA RASHAD, I COULDN'T BELIEVE SHE SAID YES, WE APPROACHED HER WITH 20 PAGES OF A SCRIPT.

NOT ONLY IS SHE EVERYONE KNOWS HER AS CLAIRE HUXTABLE, SHE'S ONE OF THE MOST SIGNIFICANT THEATER ARTISTS LIVING TODAY.

SHE IS THE FIRST BLACK WOMAN TO WIN, THE BEST ACTRESS FOR TONY.

TONY FOR BEST ACTRESS.

SHE HAD BEEN -- SHE'S THE ORIGINAL CAST OF "DREAM GIRLS," ORIGINAL CAST OF "THE WHIZ," SHE TOUCHED EVERY SINGLE POCKET, MEANINGFUL THEATER IN THIS LAST HALF CENTURY AND SHE BRINGS ALL THAT WISDOM AND GRACE AND WARMTH INTO THE ROOMS AND SHE REALLY CREATES A SPACE OF KIND OF JUST SHAMELESS UNSELF-CONSCIOUS INSPIRATION AND EXPLORING, YOU KNOW, WHICH IS WHAT WE NEEDED.

WE REALLY ARE BUILDING THIS PLAY, BUILDING THE PLAY AS WE WERE FLYING, RIGHT?

AND THE WAY SHE COULD JUST GIVE -- SHE WOULD WALK UP TO AN ACTOR AND WHISPER IN THEIR EAR AND WHATEVER SHE WAS WHISPERING, YOU WOULD GET THIS COMPLETELY DIFFERENT PERFORMANCE, JUST A MASTER OF THE ART FORM.

I THINK IT IS -- FIVE OF OUR SIX ACTORS NOMINATED, IT IS CLEARLY SOMETHING SHE -- >> SHE HAD SOMETHING TO DO WITH IT.

>> YEAH, EXACTLY.

>> THE WHISPERS WORKED.

I WONDER IF DO YOU HAVE A BODY OF WORK THAT YOU ARE TRYING -- I'M THINKING OF AUGUST WILSON AND THE FULL CYCLE OF PLAYS THAT HE WROTE AND REALLY JUST ONE AFTER THE OTHER, DIFFERENT ELEMENTS OF THE BLACK EXPERIENCE IN AMERICA, AND LAST ROUND, YOU KNOW, OF THE TONYS, YOUR PLAY "APPROPRIATE" WON BEST REVIVAL OF A PLAY, AND THAT TAKES PLACE ON A PLANTATION IN ARKANSAS WITH DYSFUNCTIONAL WHITE FAMILY.

I'M WONDERING WHETHER THESE ARE ALL PIECES THAT ADD UP TO SOMETHING ELSE THAT YOU'RE THINKING ABOUT.

>> YEAH, IT IS NOTHING QUITE AS INTENTIONAL AS AUGUST WILSON'S PROJECT, WHICH IS REALLY ABOUT SORT OF RECLAIMING THE 20th CENTURY FOR BLACK AMERICAN LIFE, BUT I MEAN, THEY ALL FEEL CONNECTED AND I'LL BE HONEST, I WAS THINKING ABOUT PURPOSE AND WRITING A LOT OF IT WHILE I WAS WRITING "APPROPRIATE," THERE IS SOMETHING ABOUT FAMILY DRAMA, IT IS WHAT WE'RE GOOD AT.

I WANTED TO SEE WHAT IT WOULD FEEL LIKE TO RECAST SOME OF THOSE THEMES AND SOME OF THOSE RELATIONSHIPS AND DIFFERENT SPACE, A DIFFERENT TIME AND I DID WRITE "APPROPRIATE" 10, 12 YEARS AGO, DIFFERENT PERSONNEL, I HAVE KIDS, I WANTED TO GET BACK INTO THE ARENA WITH IT AND SEE WHAT WOULD HAPPEN.

BUT ULTIMATELY I THINK ALL OF MY PLAYS ARE ABOUT THINKING THROUGH WHAT IS AMERICAN.

WHAT IS AMERICAN ABOUT DRAMA?

WHAT IS AMERICAN ABOUT US AUDIENCES?

WE'RE TRYING TO CHALLENGE OUR OWN IDEAS OF WHAT WE ARE VERSUS WHAT WE ARE TOLD WE ARE, WHAT WE THINK WE ARE AND EXPLORING THINGS LIKE HISTORY AND POLITICS, SUBJECTS YOU CAN MAJOR IN IN COLLEGE HAVE A DIRECT AND SIGNIFICANT AND SPECIFIC IMPACT ON THE WAYS THAT HUMAN BEINGS LIVE THEIR LIVES AND LOVE EACH OTHER.

THERE IS A RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN POLITICS AND FAMILY.

AND WHAT YOU DO INSIDE, AT YOUR DINNER TABLE, IS ABSOLUTELY CONNECTED TO THE HEADLINES AND TRYING TO GET PEOPLE TO HAVE A SENSE OF OWNERSHIP OVER CIVIC LIFE AND THEIR ROLE IN THE WHOLENESS IF YOU WILL.

>> BRANDEN JACOBS-JENKINS, A PLAYWRIGHT FOR "PURPOSE," THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>>> FINALLY, A HEART FELT REUNION ALMOST HALF A CENTURY IN THE MAKING.

A 49-YEAR-OLD MAN HAS BEEN IDENTIFIED AS THE 1 40th CHILD FOUND BY THE GRANDMOTHERS OF THE PLAZA DE MAYO, A HUMAN RIGHTS ORGANIZATION DEDICATED TO SEARCHING FOR CHILDREN KIDNAPPED DURING ARGENTINA'S LAST MILITARY DICTATORSHIP IN THE MID'70s TO EARLY '80s.

THE MAN WAS BORN IN A DETENTION CENTER AFTER HIS PARENTS WHOSE PICTURES ARE SEEN ON THE TABLE WERE KIDNAPPED IN DECEMBER OF 1976.

HE'S ONE AN ESTIMATED 500 CHILDREN OF DISAPPEARED WOMEN STOLEN BY THE GOVERNMENT AT THE TIME.

HIS SISTER NEVER LOST HOPE OF FINDING HIM, SAYING, QUOTE, IT IS A WIN FOR THE METZ-ROMERO FAMILY AND FOR SOCIETY.

>> AND THAT'S IT FOR OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT.

IF YOU WANT TO FIND OUT WHAT IS COMING UP FOR THE SHOW EACH NIGHT, SIGN UP FOR OUR NEWSLETTER.

THANK YOU FOR WATCHING "AMANPOUR & CO." ON PBS.

JOIN US AGAIN TOMORROW NIGHT.