>> HELLO, EVERYONE, AND WELCOME TO "AMANPOUR & COMPANY," HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.

>> GAZA IS A TRAGIC --IT IS A TRAGEDY.

IT IS A TRAGEDY.

AND HE WANTS TO GET IT SOLVED AND I WANT TO GET IT SOLVED.

>> BUT STILL NO CEASEFIRE AND ISRAELI STRIKES HAVE KILLED HUNDREDS MORE IN RECENT DAYS.

THE U. N. 'S JAMES ELDER TELLS ME ABOUT GAZA'S CRITICAL CONDITIONS.

> >> PLUS, GALIA DAVID, DESPERATE FOR HER SON'S RELEASE FROM THERE, HE IS STILL BEING HELD HOSTAGE BY HAMAS.

> >> AND -- >> WE HAVE GOTTEN CLOSER TO IT AND I HOPE WE CAN CROSS THE LINE.

>> WHAT IS ISRAEL'S BIG STRATEGY?

I ASK FORMER ISRAELI MILITARY INTELLIGENCE CHIEF TAMIR HAYMAN.

> >> ALSO AHEAD -- >> THIS IS A DIRECT ATTACK ON RURAL AMERICA THAT IS GOING TO MAKE IT SO MUCH HARDER FOR STRUGGLING AMERICANS TO GET BY.

>> MICHEL MARTIN SPEAKS TO ANDY BESHEAR ABOUT THE IMPACT OF TRUMP'S SWEEPING DOMESTIC POLICY BILL, IN HIS STATE.

>> "AMANPOUR & CO. " IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT, JIM ATTWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS, CANDACE KING WEIR, THE SYLVIA A.

AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTISEMITISM, THE FAMILY FOUNDATION OF LEILA AND MICKEY STRAUS, MARK J. BLECHNER, THE FILOMEN M. D'AGOSTINO FOUNDATION, SETON J. MELVIN, THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND, CHARLES ROSENBLUM, KOO AND PATRICIA YUEN, COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES, BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, AND JEFFREY KATZ AND BETH ROGERS.

AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

> >> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, EVERYONE.

I'M CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR IN LONDON.

ISRAEL'S PRIME MINISTER BENJAMIN NETANYAHU IS IN WASHINGTON FOR WHAT IS NOW AN EXTENDED VISIT WITH PRESIDENT TRUMP.

THEIR TALK OF IMMINENT CEASEFIRE HAS YET TO COME TO FRUITION.

INSTEAD, ISRAEL'S RENEWED OFFENSIVE IN GAZA KILLED HUNS MORE IN RECENT DAYS ACCORDING TO AUTHORITIES THERE, EVEN DISTRIBUTING AID MEANT TO SAVE LIVES RESULTED IN MORE DEATHS.

LAST WEEK, MORE THAN 240 NGOs CALLED FOR AN IMMEDIATE END TO THE CONTROVERSIAL GAZA HUMANITARIAN FOUNDATION AND ITS OPERATIONS, SAYING THAT PALESTINIANS, QUOTE, FACE AN IMPOSSIBLE CHOICE, STARVE OR RISK BEING SHOT WHILE TRYING TO COLLECT FOOD.

ON TOP OF THIS, NOW ISRAEL'S DEFENSE MINISTER IS PROPOSING TO MOVE 600,000 PALESTINIANS INTO A CONCENTRATED AREA OF RAFAH IN THE SOUTH OF GAZA.

LET'S GET A SENSE OF THE SITUATION AND THE URGENT NEED IN GAZA.

JAMES ELDER HAS JUST RETURNED FROM A RECENT TRIP THERE FOR UNICEF AND HE'S JOINING ME HERE IN THE STUDIO.

WELCOME BACK.

THIS IS YOUR FIRST TRIP SINCE BEFORE WINTER, RIGHT?

I THINK SINCE NOVEMBER.

WHAT COULD YOU SEE ON THE GROUND THAT HAS CHANGED THEN AND NOW?

>> I THINK, CHRISTIANE, THREE THINGS STRUCK ME REALLY VIVIDLY.

ONE IS PREVIOUSLY I WOULD SEE THE LEVEL OF INJURIES ON THE CHILDREN, THE LEVEL OF TRAUMA ON THE CHILDREN.

I'VE NEVER SEEN THAT UNTIL I WENT TO GAZA, YOU KNOW, IN NOVEMBER 2023.

THIS TIME I WAS NOT JUST SEEING CHILDREN WITH THOSE HORRIFIC WOUNDS OF WAR, THE BURNS, THE SHRAPNEL WOUNDS, I WAS HEARING THEM, I WOULD HEAR GIRLS AND BOYS, THE SCREAMS, BECAUSE THE LACK OF PAINKILLERS IS JUST SO, SO PREVALENT.

SO, VERY, VERY HARD TO SEE GIRLS AND BOYS IN THAT SITUATION, AND ALSO TO HEAR THEM.

LACK OF WATER.

I EXPECTED THINGS TO BE WORSE.

THEY ALWAYS ARE IN GAZA, BUT NOW TO SEE THE DEPRIVATION OF WATER, THERE IS NO ONE IN GAZA GETTING THE BASIC EMERGENCY LEVEL OF WATER.

NOW WHEN A CHILD IS DEPRIVED FOOD AND A CHILD IS DEPRIVED WATER, THAT IS A COLLISION ON A CHILD'S BODY WHICH IS LETHAL.

AND IN THE THIRD THING WAS TO SEE JUST HOW MUCH DAMAGE GI JEFF IS TO PEOPLE, TO AN AID STRUCTURE.

I KNEW IT WOULD BE BAD.

I WAS NOT PREPARED FOR HOW BAD IT WOULD BE FOR PALESTINIANS.

>> A COUPLE OF THINGS I WANT TO DRILL DOWN ON.

CAN YOU EXPLAIN --BECAUSE I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, THERE IS NOT ENOUGH CLEAN POTABLE WATER.

HOW DO 2 MILLION PEOPLE SURVIVE WHEN THERE ISN'T?

WHAT IS THE PHYSICAL STATE?

HOW MUCH DO THEY DRINK?

HAS TO BE SOME WATER, OTHERWISE THEY WOULD ALL BE DEAD.

>> THERE IS SOME WATER AND IT DEPENDS ON THE FAMILY, DEPENDS ON WHERE THEY ARE, DEPENLDS ON IF THE DESALINATION PLANT IS ABLE TO PRODUCE WATER, DEPENDS IF THAT TRUCK HAD FUEL THAT PARTICULAR DAY.

IT MIGHT BE SEVERAL LITERS.

A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE DRINKING BRACKISH WATER.

FAMILIES KNOW THEIR CHILDREN AREN'T GETTING WELL BUT THEY CAN'T ACCESS A HOSPITAL.

THE HOSPITAL IN THE SOUTH SERVES A MILLION PEOPLE BUT IT IS IN AN EVACUATION ZONE, SO YOU CAN'T GET THERE.

WATER IS REALLY IMPORTANT BECAUSE WE HAD SO MANY ARGUMENTS AROUND ALL THIS, YOU KNOW, CLAIMS AROUND MISUSE OF HUMANITARIAN AID.

AND UNICEF HAS BEEN VERY CLEAR ABOUT THE LAST MILE DISTRIBUTION WE DO.

I'M LUCKY, I GET TO SEE OUR NUTRITIONAL FOOD IN THE MOUTHS OF CHILDREN.

NONETHELESS, THERE ARE ALLEGATIONS MADE BY AID DIVERSION.

NONE HAVE EVIDENCE, BUT THERE ARE.

>> AID DIVERSION.

>> ALLEGATIONS BY THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT THAT HAMAS IS DIVERTING --YES, THAT'S ONE OF THEIR -- >> CONSTANT CLAIM.

IT IS AN ALLEGATION AS TO WHY DHF -- >> THAT IS THE GAZA HUMANITARIAN FOUNDATION, CREATED TO ESSENTIALLY SUBVERT THE ACTUAL OPERATING GROUP, WHICH WAS A U. N. GROUP, UNRWA.

>> YES, EXACTLY.

AND NOW THE ENTIRE SYSTEM, SO IF YOU JUST LOOK AT WATER, WHATEVER ALLEGATIONS YOU HAVE, UTTERLY UNPROVEN, WATER GOES FROM THE SOURCE TO THE RECIPIENT.

THERE CAN BE NO DIVERSION.

SO, IT'S SO TROUBLING TO SEE THAT LEVEL OF DEPRIVATION BECAUSE IT IS --THIS IS POLITICAL, NOT LOGISTICAL.

YOU TURN ON THE POWER SUPPLY, YOU ALLOW FUEL IN, AND YOU CHANGE THE WATER SCENARIO WITHIN 24 HOURS FOR POPULATION.

>> SO NOT TURNING THE POWER ON.

>> YES, THE POWER HAS BEEN TURNED OFF.

UNICEF MANAGED TO LOBBY LATE LAST YEAR EXTENSIVELY TO GET THAT TURNED ON, BUT IT WAS TURNED OFF AGAIN DURING THE CEASEFIRE.

>> IN YOUR EXPERIENCE AND GAZA IS A WAR ZONE AND FRANKLY HAS BEEN A WAR ZONE FOR A LONG TIME, THERE HAVE BEEN MANY, MANY, YOU KNOW, WAR, COUNTERWAR, ALL THE REST OF IT.

WHAT IS THE POINT OF TURNING OFF THE ELECTRICITY AND TURNING OFF THE CLEAN WATER?

WHAT IS THE STRATEGIC POINT OF THAT FROM AN ISRAELI PERSPECTIVE WOULD YOU SAY?

>> WELL, I MEAN, FOR ME, OF COURSE, AS A HUMANITARIAN, IT IS DIFFICULT TO HAVE A -- >> WHEN YOU ASK THEM, WHAT DO THEY SAY?

>> THEY MADE STATEMENTS VERY CLEARLY AFTER THE HORRORS OF OCTOBER 7 THIS WOULD BE THE STATED INTENTION.

>> BUT WHY WATER?

I DON'T UNDERSTAND IT.

>> THE ARGUMENT WOULD BE MADE FROM SENIOR ISRAELI -- SENIOR U. N. OFFICIALS THERE IS AN ENTIRE POPULATION THAT IS SOMEHOW AT FAULT HERE, WHICH, OF COURSE, ABHORRENT BECAUSE I WALK THE CORRIDORS AND SEE THOSE CHILDREN NOW WITH HUMANITARIAN AID.

WE TALK ABOUT THAT GAZA HUMANITARIAN FOUNDATION, THE UNITED NATIONS WORKS IN MANY DIFFICULT PLACES.

THIS IS NOT FIRST TIME WE WORKED IN A PLACE THAT DOESN'T HAVE LAW AND ORDER AND WE DON'T HAVE TO LOOK AT OTHER CONFLICT ZONES, DON'T HAVE TO LOOK TO UKRAINE OR AFGHANISTAN OR SUDAN.

WE CAN LOOK TO TWO MONTHS AGO AND 400 DISTRIBUTION POINTS, HUMANITARIAN AID IS SO IMPORTANT.

ONE THING, IT GOING TO WHERE PEOPLE NEED IT, MOMS, ELDERLY, CHILDREN, 400 DISTRIBUTION POINTS VERSUS FOUR.

YOU HAVE TO MAKE SURE THE HUMANITARIAN AID YOU'RE TRYING IS INCREASING ACCESS TO WATER, THOSE THINGS AREN'T HAPPENING AND THE STATED INTENTION OF THE GAZA HUMANITARIAN FOUNDATION IS TO PUSH A POPULATION TO THE SOUTH AND SIDELINE HUMANITARIAN SYSTEM.

AND WE'RE SEEING THAT.

THAT IS LETHAL FOR MOMS AND CHILDREN.

>> WHY DO YOU THINK THEY'RE TRYING TO PUT THEM - - ISRAEL KATZ, THE DEFENSE MINISTER, SAID, THEY ARE, LET ME GET THIS STRAIGHT, LAID OUT PLANS TO FORCE ALL PALESTINIANS IN GAZA INTO A CAMP ON THE RUINS OF RAFAH.

THEY WANT TO CALL IT A HUMANITARIAN CITY.

THEY WANT TO SAY THAT ISRAEL FORCES WILL POLICE IT FROM AFAR, BUT NOT INSIDE.

600,000 AND MAYBE MORE.

BUT WHAT -- THAT, INTERNATIONAL OFFICIALS ARE CALLING IT A BLUEPRINT FOR CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY, BUT ALSO IT MEANS THAT THEY -- WHAT, THEY --WHAT WOULD HAPPEN?

>> EXACTLY.

IT IS INTERESTING, ISN'T IT, THE STATEMENTS MADE AROUND THE INTERNATIONAL HUMANITARIAN LAW ARE SO GRAVE.

I ALMOST FIND MYSELF SOMETIMES MOVING ON BECAUSE IT SEEMS PEOPLE HAVE DISMISSED INTERNATIONAL HUMANITARIAN LAW, THE PRINCIPLES, WHICH IS VERY DANGEROUS FOR OTHER CONFLICTS WITH CHILDREN INVOLVED.

LET'S FOCUS ON THE PRACTICAL LEVEL.

IF YOU ARE CREATING ANY ZONE, YOU CAN'T FORCIBLY PUSH PEOPLE INTO IT, BUT YOU MUST HAVE FOOD, WATER, MEDICINE.

NONE OF THOSE THINGS ARE THERE.

SO YOU'RE PUTTING A VERY EXHAUSTED POPULATION IN A CAGE WITHIN A CAGE AT A TIME WHEN YOU AND I SPEAK THAT MENINGITIS IS ON THE RISE, THAT'S ON.

RISE BECAUSE OF A LACK OF SANITATION, LACK OF MEDICAL SUPPLIES.

SO, POLIO, WE ARE STILL FEARFUL OF A POLIO OUTBREAK.

IT EXISTS WITHIN GAZA.

SO ALL WE WILL SEE HAPPENING IN THOSE SPACES IS EXPEDITE A HUMANITARIAN CATASTROPHE FROM THE GROUND FOR A POPULATION, AS YOU AND I SPEAK, NOT EVEN MENTIONING THAT WE'RE STILL AT A POINT WHERE 17,000 GIRLS AND BOYS KILLED, THAT'S A CHILD KILLED IN GAZA EVERY SINGLE HOUR SINCE THE HORRORS OF OCTOBER 7th, EVERY HOUR, AND THE WORLD HAS SOMEHOW MOVED ON.

>> THEY SAY THEY'RE TRYING TO COME TO A CEASEFIRE, BUT WE DON'T KNOW AND OBVIOUSLY TO RELEASE THE HOSTAGES AS WELL.

I BELIEVE IT IS UNICEF THAT SAYS 50,000 CHILDREN IN GAZA HAVE BEEN KILLED AND WOUNDED.

SO THE NUMBERS ARE HUGE.

AND TO YOUR POINT ABOUT THE HOSPITALS, ONE OF THE DIRECTORS SAYS IF FUEL ISN'T MADE AVAILABLE IN THE NEXT FEW HOURS, THE ALYSHEBA HOSPITAL WILL GET OUT OF SERVICE IN THE NEXT FEW HOURS, THIS WILL LEAD TO A HIGH NUMBER OF DEATHS AND OTHER HOSPITALS ARE SAYING THE SAME THING.

YOU VISITED NASTA HOSPITAL AND POSTED A VIDEO, QUITE EMOTIONAL.

I WANT TO PLAY IT AND HAVE YOU TALK ABOUT IT.

>> I THINK OF THE REHAB, I'LL READ IT, THEY KILLED MY MOTHER, I USED TO BE BEAUTIFUL.

NOW I CANNOT WASH. WHAT DO YOU WANT ME TO SAY?

WHAT IS THERE TO SAY IN THE FACE OF SUCH PAIN?

SUCH PAIN HERE IN GAZA AND SUCH IMPUNITY EVERYWHERE ELSE.

SORRY.

MAYBE THAT'S IT.

SORRY.

>> IT IS VERY POWERFUL, VERY DRAMATIC.

AND TALK ME THROUGH WHAT HAD YOU BEEN SEEING THAT DAY?

YOU'RE SITTING IN WHAT LOOKS LIKE A BLOWN OUT PART OF THE HOSPITAL.

>> IT IS UNCOMFORTABLE BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, HERE I SIT NOW, IN LONDON, AND THERE ARE CHILDREN, LITTLE GIRLS WHO HAVE BEEN THERE FOR 640 DAYS AND THERE I AM HAVING A MOMENT EXHAUSTED BY THE HORRORS.

I'VE NEVER BEEN SOMEWHERE WHERE EVERY SINGLE HOSPITAL ROOM HAS MANY, MANY CHILDREN, AND SO, THAT PARTICULAR HOSPITAL ROOM I SAT WITH A LITTLE GIRL WHO WAS 11 YEARS OLD, HAD HER LEG AMPUTATED, BECAUSE OF A LACK OF MEDICAL EVACUATION AND DENIAL OF MEDICAL CARE, THEY HAD TO AMPUTATE HER OTHER LEG.

YOU ARE WATCHING CHILDREN BEING DISASSEMBLED.

NEXT TO HER IN A BED WAS A LITTLE GIRL JENA, AIR STRIKE, HER SCHOOL, SHE WAS PARALYZED FROM THE HIPS DOWN BUT WASN'T UNCONSCIOUS.

AS SHE LAY ON THE GROUND, SHE WATCHED HER FRIEND DIE IN FRONT OF HER.

THESE ARE CHILDREN AND IT IS GRACIOUS OF THE PARENTS TO TELL THEIR STORIES BECAUSE THEY'RE HOPEFUL SOMETHING WILL HAPPEN ABOUT IT.

AS I WALKED OUT OF THE ROOM WITH MY YOUNG PALESTINIAN COLLEAGUE WHO SEES ALL OF THIS, WHO IS 25 AND KEEPS PUSHING THROUGH TO TELL STORIES ON BEHALF OF PEOPLE FOR UNICEF, AS I WALKED OUT, A MOM JUST GRABBED ME, AND WAS UTTERLY DISTRAUGHT, CHRISTIANE, SAYING SHE SPENT NINE YEARS CONCEIVING HER CHILD, HER ONLY CHILD, AND HER HUSBAND HAD JUST BEEN KILLED.

AND THAT LEVEL OF DESPAIR, SO, YOU KNOW, THERE IS NO TIME FOR DESPAIR FOR UNICEF.

WE HAVE COLLEAGUES ON THE GROUND IN UNPRECEDENTED DANGEROUS PLACES.

THAT WAS A MOMENT OF JUST, I THINK, A BIT OF DESPAIR AND A LITTLE BIT OF ANGER FOR THE LACK --THE AMOUNT OF IMPUNITY THAT STILL EXISTS FOR 21 MONTHS OF THESE HORRORS AGAINST CHILDREN AND THEIR PARENTS.

>> I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT SOMETHING THAT IS JUST REALLY EGREGIOUS AND REALLY CONTROVERSIAL.

THERE ARE MANY, MANY REPORTS AND THERE ARE MORE AND MORE NOT ONLY OF THE NUMBER OF PALESTINIANS WHO HAVE BEEN KILLED JUST TRYING TO COME AND GET FOOD, BUT, YOU KNOW, SO MANY REPORTS OF GUNFIRE, DRONE ATTACKS, ON THOSE -- A FORMER GAZA AID CONTRACTOR TOLD THE BBC HE SAW A GUARD FROM THE WATCH TOWER OPEN FIRE AT WOMEN AND CHILDREN, WAS TOLD BY A TEAM LEADER, QUOTE, IF YOU FEEL THREATENED, SHOOT.

SHOOT TO KILL, AND ASK QUESTIONS LATER.

NOW, THE GHF AS WE TALKED ABOUT SAID THIS IS CATEGORICALLY FALSE.

BUT, WHAT ARE YOU HEARING AND WE CAN SEE IT, WE CAN SEE THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN KILLED JUST TRYING TO GET FOOD.

>> YOU KNOW, I MADE A REAL POINT OF GOING IN AND GETTING AS MANY TESTIMONIES AS I COULD AND I SAW A FAMILY WHO WAS GETTING CASH FROM UNICEF AND I WOULD MEET THREE YOUNG GUYS WHO HAD BEEN THERE.

I WASN'T SEEKING OUT TESTIMONIALS.

THOSE THREE YOUNG MEN, FOR EXAMPLE, IN THEIR 20s, THEY HAVE BEEN THERE MANY TIMES EVERY NEVER SUCCESSFUL GETTING AID.

HE SAID HE GOT THERE, DID EVERYTHING HE WAS TOLD, HE WAS CORRALLED INTO A CAGE-LIKE AREA AND THREATEN WAS A DRONE OVERHEAD SHOOTING PEOPLE.

JAMES, WHY DID THEY DO THAT TO US?

I CAN'T GIVE HIM AN ANSWER TO THAT.

ON THE VERY FIRST DAY I MET A LITTLE BOY WHO HAD BEEN GIVEN MONEY BY HIS DAD TO GO AND BUY BREAD.

ABDEL RAHMAN, 13, HE WANTED MORE THAN THAT HE'S WATCHING HIS MOM, WATCHING HIS MOM TO THE POINT OF STARVATION, HE WANTS MORE THAN BREAD AND HE SEES A FLOOD OF PEOPLE HEADING TO ONE OF THE SITES, SO HE WENT, JUST, YOU KNOW, HE TOLD ME THE STORY, FROM A HOSPITAL BED, AND AS HE TOLD ME, HIS FATHER WAS IN TEARS BECAUSE HE WAS ALMOST APOLOGIZING TO HIS DAD, AND THIS BOY WAS IN IMMENSE PAIN AND HE WENT, SAME THING, FIRING, SHOOTING, DIDN'T GET ANY AID, SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST, PEOPLE GET SUPPLIES ALL THE TIME, CHRISTIANE.

INSTEAD HE GOT SHRAPNEL FROM A TANK SHELL INTO HIS PANCREAS, INTO HIS STOMACH, AND HE SAT UP IN THE HOSPITAL BED, I'LL NEVER FORGET THIS LITTLE BOY, HE SAT UP WANTING TO TELL HIS STORY, HIS OWN DIGNITY, A 13-YEAR-OLD AND ON THE DAY I LEFT GAZA AFTER TWO WEEKS, I GOT A MESSAGE THAT HE DIED OF THOSE INJURIES.

DIED TRYING TO GET FOOD FOR HIS FAMILY BECAUSE A PERFECTLY WELL FUNCTIONING HUMANITARIAN SYSTEM, UNICEF IS PART OF 400 DISTRIBUTION SITES, IS BEING DELIBERATELY SIDELINED AND THIS IS WHAT PEOPLE ARE BEING PUSHED INTO.

THE LAST STORY, IF I MAY, A 23-YEAR-OLD WOMAN, TERRIBLE WOUNDS FROM BARBED WIRE AND SHE SAID I WILL GO BACK, SHE GOT NOTHING, I WILL GO BACK JAMES, I'M THE OLD NORTHWEST EST IN MY FAMILY, MY DAD HAS A HEART CONDITION, THESE ARE SENTENCES YOU NEVER THOUGHT PEOPLE WOULD SAY, IN HER CASE, PLEASE JUST DON'T LET ME DIE OF AN EMPTY STOMACH.

SHE WILL RETURN.

>> GHF.

>> TO THE GHF, YES.

>> HORRIBLY IMPERSONAL ACRONYM, ANYWAY.

AS YOU SAY, I WANT TO READ TOM FLETCHER, THE HUMANITARIAN, YOU KNOW, HEAD OF THE U. N. SAID A WHILE AGO, WE'RE SEEING FOOD SET ON THE BORDERS AND NOT BEING ALLOWED IN WHEN THERE IS A POPULATION ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE BORDER THAT IS STARVING AND WE'RE HEARING ISRAELI MINISTERS SAY THAT IS TO PUT PRESSURE ON THE POPULATION OF GAZA.

HOW DO YOU --WHAT CAN YOU DO BECAUSE YOU CAN ALMOST NOT GET INTO DELIVER.

EVEN THIS GHF, HAS IT GOT ENOUGH FOOD?

>> NO, THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION.

FOUR DISTRIBUTION POINTS.

IF YOU ARE DISABLED OR SINGLE MOM OR THE ELDERLY, AND YOU'RE MY AGE AND YOU'RE 35 MILES AWAY, IT IS IMPOSSIBLE.

IF YOU ARE FIT AND HEALTHY AND CLOSE BY, YOU GO AND IT IS SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST AND SAME PEOPLE TAKING SUGAR AND OIL BECAUSE THEY'RE MORE VALUABLE.

SO, NO, SO, FOR -- >> TAKING SUGAR AND OIL BECAUSE THEY'RE MORE VALUABLE TO USE OR TO SELL?

>> TO SELL.

THIS IS THE THING.

THE IDEA THAT - - >> SOME OF THESE GANGS.

>> YES.

>> THE IDEA OF, YOU KNOW, CIRCUMVENTING AN AID SYSTEM BECAUSE OF LOOTING, THE U. N. HAS BEEN CLEAR ON LOOTING, TOM FLETCHER WAS HERE ON THIS SHOW, LOOTING IS THE ECONOMICS OF KARROS SCARCITY.

IF YOU CLOSE OFF PART OF LONDON FOR TWO AND A HALF MONTHS AND ALLOW A FEW TRUCKS DOWN ONE POINT, THAT WILL HAPPEN.

WITHIN DAYS OF THE CEASEFIRE, THERE WAS NO LOOTING BECAUSE THERE WAS NO BLACK MARKET.

AND RIGHT NOW THERE IS FOOD IN TRUCKS ACROSS THE BORDER, FOR A MILLION PEOPLE FOR FOUR MONTHS, FOR UNICEF, I'VE SEEN THOSE MOMS, I'VE SEEN THE MOMS AND THE GRANDMOMS, I WAS AT A NUTRITION POINT GETTING THAT MALNOURISHED FOOD, WE KNOW WHAT IS NOT BEING DONE.

WE'RE FORTUNATE, WE DO TRAUMA WORK, WE DO EDUCATION WORK, NORMAL SUPPLY DRIVEN, BUT FOR COLLEAGUES, THE LEVEL OF FRUSTRATION WHEN YOU SEE MALNOURISHED CHILDREN, WITH GRANDMOTHERS, WITH THEIR DENIAL OF FOOD, IT IS HEART BREAKING AND BEYOND.

>> WE ARE PLEASED THAT YOU'RE HERE TO TELL US ABOUT IT.

JAMES ELDER.

PEOPLE HAVE TO KNOW AND TRY TO DO SOMETHING TO MAKE IT DIFFERENT.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR BEING HERE.

>> THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU.

> >> SO, AS LONG AS THERE IS NO CEASEFIRE, NOT ONLY NO AID FOR GAZA, NO RESPITE EITHER FOR THE HOSTAGES WHO ARE STILL HELD THERE BY HAMAS OR FOR THEIR FAMILIES, EVYATAR DAVID IS ONE OF THEM.

TAKEN BY HAMAS FROM THE NOVA MUSIC FESTIVAL ON OCTOBER 7th, 2023.

FOR HIS MOTHER GALIA IT HAS BEEN 641 DAYS OF ANGUISH AND DASHED HOPES AS SHE TOLD ME HERE IN THE STUDIO.

GALIA, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR COMING IN.

AND IT IS EXTRAORDINARY TO THINK THAT IT IS MORE THAN 640 DAYS SINCE THIS ATROCITY HAPPENED AND YOUR SON WAS AMONG THOSE KIDNAPPED AND HELD HOSTAGE.

DO YOU THINK THAT THIS TIME AS THEY TALK ABOUT HOSTAGE RELEASE AND POTENTIAL CEASEFIRES, DO YOU HAVE ANY EXTRA HOPE OR HAVE YOU BEEN THIS ROUTE TOO MANY TIMES?

>> FIRST TIME THAT I REALLY HAVE HOPE BECAUSE IN THE LAST DEAL, WHEN IT BEGAN, IT WAS JUST THE FIRST PHASE.

>> TELL ME WHAT HAPPENED.

HE WAS TAKEN FROM THE NOVA FESTIVAL.

>> YEAH, THE FESTIVAL OF LOVE, MUSIC FESTIVAL, AND IT WAS WITH THREE FRIENDS.

ONE OF THEM WAS KIDNAPPED WITH HIM.

AND OTHER TWO WERE BRUTALLY MURDERED.

>> WHICH IS HORRIBLE.

DID THE ONE WHO WAS KIDNAPPED WITH HIM, HE'S COME OUT, RIGHT?

>> NO.

>> HE'S STILL THERE?

>> HE'S STILL THERE.

>> YOU HAVE HEARD ABOUT YOUR SON?

>> I HAVE THE TESTIMONIES FROM -- >> OTHERS WHO WERE WITH HIM BEING HELD.

>> YEAH, FOR A LONG PERIOD OF TIME.

>> WHAT DO THEY SAY ABOUT HOW HE'S DOING, HOW THEIR CONDITIONS WERE?

>> MORBID CONDITIONS.

RIGHT NOW AT THIS TIME, AT THIS MINUTE, UNDER TORTURES, PHYSICAL AND MENTAL TORTURES, UNDERGROUND, RIGHT NOW, IN A NARROW TUNNEL AND ONE METER WIDE AND TEN METER LONG WITH HOLE FOR THEIR NEEDS.

AND THEY BARELY HAVE FOOD OR WATER TO DRINK.

AND -- >> HOW DO YOU THINK --YOU KNOW YOUR SON, HOW DO YOU THINK HE'S HOLDING UP?

>> MY SON IS VERY MODEST AND ALSO YOU HAVE STRONG PERSONALITY.

BUT I HOPE THAT HE IS STILL KNOW THAT WE ARE DOING EVERYTHING TO BRING HIM FROM THIS HELL, YEAH.

>> SO, I KNOW YOU'RE NOT A POLITICAL PERSON.

BUT, YOU HAVE ENDURED, ALL THE ISRAELI FAMILIES, HAVE ENDURED 20 MONTHS OF THIS AND OF NOT KNOWING WHEN YOU'RE GOING TO SEE YOUR RELATIVES BACK.

AND I WONDER IF YOU HAVE A MESSAGE FOR YOUR PRIME MINISTER NOW, WHO SEEMS TO HAVE PUT DEFEATING HAMAS ABOVE BRINGING BACK THE HOSTAGES.

DO YOU FEEL THAT WAY?

>> I THINK THAT IT IS TALKING DIFFERENT IN THE LAST TWO WEEKS.

AND I HEAR THAT HE CHANGE THE PRIORITY OF THE WAR.

AND I HOPE THAT AT THE END AND IT WILL BE SOON, AND PEACE WILL BE ACHIEVED AND IT'S --IT CAN BE POSSIBLE JUST AFTER ALL THE HOSTAGES WILL COME HOME.

>> THERE WAS A VIDEO OF YOUR BOY, EVYATAR, KIND OF IN THE BACKGROUND WHEN OTHERS WERE RELEASED.

YOU SAW THAT.

AND THAT MUST HAVE BEEN JUST HELLACIOUS TO SEE YOUR SON HAVING TO ENDURE OTHER PEOPLE'S FREEDOM AND NOT BE ABLE TO GET OUT THEN.

>> IT WAS -- IT WAS, FIRST OF ALL, A TORTURE FOR HIM.

A SADISTIC ONE.

AND FOR ME IT WAS A SIGN OF LIFE.

BUT VERY TOUGH ONE BECAUSE THE LOOK IN HIS EYES, HIS BODY LANGUAGE, HIS GESTURES, AND THIS IS NOT MY BOY.

THIS IS NOT MY SON.

IMAGINE AFTER 505 DAYS, AND THEY BROUGHT EVYATAR OUT FROM UNDERGROUND AND THEY JUST FORCED THEM TO WATCH, TO SEE.

AND THEY ARE BEGGING FOR THEIR LIFE.

AND AFTER THAT, THEY CLOSED THE DOOR, THE VAN DOOR AND TOOK THEM BACK UNDERGROUND.

>> THIS TIME YOU HOPE, THOUGH, THINGS MIGHT BE A LITTLE DIFFERENT.

YOU THINK THE PRIME MINISTER MAYBE --YOU THINK THE NEGOTIATIONS ARE CLOSER THAN THEY HAVE EVER BEEN?

>> I HOPE SO.

>> HOW DO YOU GET THROUGH THE DAY, EVERY DAY, AND THE NIGHT?

>> BARELY EAT.

BARELY SLEEP.

AND I'M TRYING ALL THE TIME TO MAKE EVYATAR'S VOICE BECAUSE HE JUST CAN'T SPEAK FOR HIMSELF.

SO I MUST DO IT.

>> WELL, YOU HAVE AN ELOQUENT VOICE AND PEOPLE WILL RELATE AS THEY HAVE DONE TO THE PAIN OF THE HOSTAGE FAMILIES.

AND OF ALL THE HOSTAGES.

SO, THANK YOU, GALIA, FOR COMING IN.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

AND I HOPE WE WILL RECEIVE GOOD NEWS AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.

>> I DO TOO.

>> AND ALL THIS, THE WAR WILL FINISH.

AND, FIRST OF ALL, ALL THE HOSTAGES MUST COME HOME.

AND THE WAR ALSO MUST BE FINISHED.

>> THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

> >> PRESIDENT TRUMP THIS WEEK TOUTED THE SUCCESS OF THE 12-DAY WAR BETWEEN ISRAEL AND IRAN.

AND TEASED THE POSSIBILITY OF EXPANDING THE ABRAHAM ACCORDS, A SET OF AGREEMENTS WHICH SAW BAHRAIN, MOROCCO, SUDAN AND THE UAE NORMALIZE RELATIONS WITH ISRAEL DURING TRUMP'S FIRST TERM.

BUT THE ASSESSMENTS OF THE ACTUAL DAMAGE INFLICTED ON IRAN ARE ONGOING AND THERE ARE STILL QUESTIONS, LIKE, WHY ISRAEL CHOSE TO BOMB IRAN'S NOTORIOUS EVIN PRISON, RESULTING INS S S DOZENS OF DEATHS THERE.

LET'S EXAMINE ISRAEL'S AIMS AND STRATEGIC GOALS WITH TAMIR HAYMAN, THE IDF INTELLIGENCE CHIEF FROM 2018 TO 2021 AND IS NOW THE HEAD OF THE INFLUENTIAL ISRAELI THINK TANK THE INSTITUTE FOR NATIONAL SECURITY STUDIES.

HE'S JOINING ME FROM TEL AVIV.

MR. HAYMAN, WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

CAN I FIRST START BY ASKING YOU WHETHER YOU KNOW MUCH MORE THAN WE DO ABOUT WHAT IS HAPPENING IN THE TALKS IN DOHA, IN THE TALKS IN WASHINGTON, AND WHETHER YOU THINK, LIKE GALIA DAVID, THE MOTHER OF EVYATAR WHO IS STILL A HOSTAGE, THAT THIS TIME THERE APPEARS TO BE MORE HOPE FOR A CEASEFIRE AND A HOSTAGE RELEASE AND PRISONER EXCHANGE?

>> YEAH, THANK YOU, CHRISTIANE.

THE ONLY --THE GOOD NEWS IS THAT THERE IS NO NEWS.

THERE IS SILENCE.

NOBODY TALKS ABOUT THAT.

NO HAMAS, NOT LEAKS FROM THE PRESS, FROM THE ISRAELI SIDE OR PALESTINIAN OR QATARIAN.

AND IN THAT ASPECT, NO NEWS IS GOOD NEWS.

AND ACCORDING TO WHAT HAS BEEN DECLARED FROM THE WHITE HOUSE, IT SEEMS LIKE IT ALL COMES DOWN TO ONE SINGLE POINT OF DISAGREEMENT THAT IS NOW BEING NEGOTIATED, WHICH IS WHERE ARE THE LINES THAT ISRAEL WERE GOING TO REDRAW DURING THE TEMPORARY CEASEFIRE AND WHAT WILL BE THE DISTRIBUTION OF THE HUMANITARIAN AID AVAILABLE IN THOSE AREAS.

AND THIS IS A VERY CRUCIAL STEP BECAUSE WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT A SINGLE STAGE DEAL, THERE IS THIS TWO STAGE DEAL.

WE HAVE STILL HOSTAGES, IN THE FIRST STAGE, ONLY TEN WILL BE RELEASED.

SO ISRAEL MUST KEEP SOME LEVERAGE TO THE SECOND STAGE NEGOTIATION, WHICH WILL BE THE MORE CRUCIAL ONE, BECAUSE THIS IS THE LAST STAGE AND THE LAST REMAINING LEVERAGE OF HAMAS IN ORDER TO ENSURE ITS EXISTENCE IN GAZA.

>> SO, SORRY, WHAT WILL THE SECOND STAGE LOOK LIKE THEN?

>> WELL, THIS WILL BE THE FINAL STAGE AND IT WILL BE CRUCIAL.

FROM HAMAS SIDE, THEY WILL INSIST OF FULL WITHDRAW FROM GAZA AND ASSURANCES THAT THE WAR HAS ENDED AND THERE WILL NOT BE A RENEWAL OF HOSTILITIES.

FROM THE ISRAELI SIDE, WE MUST RELEASE ALL OF THE LIVING HOSTAGES AND THE DEAD ONE.

AND IT WILL BE VERY HARD NEGOTIATION, BECAUSE IT IS A MATTER OF COMPLETE LACK OF TRUST BETWEEN THOSE TWO NEGOTIATING PARTIES.

IN ORDER TO CREATE THAT KIND OF TRUST, THERE NEED TO BE A THIRD PARTY ASSURANCES AND THAT'S PROBABLY WILL BE THE TRUMP EFFECT.

AND IF HE WILL ENSURE TO BOTH SIDE THAT THEY WILL KEEP THEIR RED LINES, THERE MIGHT BE HOPE, BUT IT WILL BE CERTAINLY VERY, VERY COMPLICATED.

>> CAN I JUST PICK UP ON WHAT YOU SAID, THE TWO MAIN ISSUES ARE AT LEAST ONE HUGE ISSUE, AS YOU ARTICULATED IN YOUR FIRST ANSWER, WAS THE HUMANITARIAN SITUATION.

AND YOU ALSO TALKED ABOUT ISRAEL, YOU KNOW, NEEDING ITS LEVERAGE.

I DON'T KNOW WHETHER HUMANITARIAN AID IS USED AS LEVERAGE AS YOU SAY, BUT YOU HAVE HEARD SOME VERY, VERY SERIOUS AND COMPELLING TESTIMONY FROM A UNICEF OFFICIAL, YOU HEARD IT FROM THE HEAD OF THE U.N., HEARD IT FROM PEOPLE ALL OVER ON THE GROUND IN HAMAS WHO CAN GET THE WORD OUT, YOU'VE SEEN THE NUMBER OF GAZANS WHO HAVE BEEN KILLED TRYING TO COME TO THIS WEIRD CREATION OF SOME APPARENTLY NOT VERY FUNCTIONAL DISTRIBUTION CENTER.

I MEAN, I WANT TO KNOW YOUR POINT ON THIS.

WHAT IS THE POINT OF STARVING ALL, REDUCING THE AMOUNT OF FOOD AND WATER TO A POPULATION?

HOW DOES THAT SERVE YOUR STRATEGIC GOALS AND DO YOU THINK IT IS IN ISRAEL'S INTEREST?

>> IT IS NOT IN ISRAEL'S INTEREST AND IT IS NOT THE ISRAELI GOAL, IT IS NOT THE ISRAELI METHOD.

IT IS NO INTENTION TO INFLICT SOME PRESSURE ON THE HUMANITARIAN, ON THE CIVILIANS.

THE PRESSURE THAT I REFERRED TO IS HAMAS.

HAMAS LEVERAGE, ALL OF THE CIVILIAN, IS TAKING CONTROL OF HUMANITARIAN AID.

WHAT HAMAS DOES IN THE AL WAY OF DISTRIBUTION, IT TOOK CONTROL HUMANITARIAN CONVOYS RAIDED THEM AND THEN RESET THE SUPPLY IN A VERY, VERY EXPENSIVE PRICES TO THE CIVILIAN.

BY THAT, HE ENSURED TWO THINGS.

ONE, FUNDING, MONEY, THAT HE GAINED IN ORDER TO RECRUIT -- NO RECRUITMENT INTO HIS LINE AND SECONDLY, THE AUTHORITY, THE SOVEREIGNTY OF THE --WHILE THE IDF IS TRYING TO DO AND ISRAEL IS TRYING TO DO IS CIRCUMVENT HAMAS AND THEY DELIVERED THE HUMANITARIAN AID TO THE CIVILIANS.

THERE IS NO ANY EFFORT TO STARVE OR ANY --AND BY DOING THAT, WE HAVE TWO DIFFERENT METHODS YOU ARE CRITICIZED, BUT IT IS A MATTER OF MAJOR ATTEMPTS TO CIRCUMVENT HAMAS AND REACH TO THE CIVILIAN.

>> I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, BUT IT JUST DOESN'T APPEAR THAT WAY AND, YOU KNOW YOUR OWN PRIME MINISTER HAS, YOU KNOW, YOU TALK ABOUT PEOPLE STEALING FOOD, BUT YOUR OWN PRIME MINISTER ENABLED A WHOLE OTHER GROUP TO CIRCUMVENT HAMAS IN WHAT HE MIGHT THINK IS A STRATEGIC, YOU KNOW, WIN FOR HIM, BUT CLEARLY THAT IS JUST ADDING FUEL TO THIS GANGLAND OF FIRE.

AND YOU KNOW THAT WHEN THE U. N. WAS DOING IT, THEY WERE ABLE TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY HAD THE SECURITY AND THE ABILITY.

SO WHAT I JUST WANT TO KNOW FROM YOU IS, REALLY, IS IT IN ISRAEL'S INTEREST TO BECOME A GLOBAL PARIAH IN THE EYES OF MANY PEOPLE FOR FORCIBLY, YOU KNOW, RESTRICTING FOOD AND CLEAN WATER JUST BY NOT TURNING THE ELECTRICITY ON?

IT IS CALLED COLLECTIVE PUNISHMENT.

I DON'T UNDERSTAND AFTER 20 MONTHS -- YOU'RE A STRATEGIST.

DO YOU THINK THIS SHOULD GO ON?

>> NO.

OF COURSE ISRAEL HAS NO INTEREST ON BACKING THIS NAME AND BECOMING A PARIAH STATE.

AND SOME FACTS NEED TO BE ADDED TO THIS CONVERSATION.

FIRST OF ALL, WATER.

YOU HAVE ASKED A VERY PERFECTLY GOOD QUESTION.

SO, LET ME DELIVER PART OF THE ANSWER, AS WE SPEAK RIGHT NOW, THERE ARE THREE PIPES OF WATER THAT DELIVERS CLEAN WATER FROM ISRAEL TO THE GAZA STRIP.

ONE, DIRECTED TO GAZA STRIP, TO GAZA CITY, ONE TO THE AREA WHERE MOST OF SANCTUARY FOR PALESTINIANS THERE, AND THE THIRD ONE GOES TO THE CENTRAL CAMP.

AS WE SPEAK RIGHT NOW.

SECONDLY, THERE ARE THREE DISTRIBUTION METHODS THAT HAVE BEEN IMPLEMENTED AS WE SPEAK.

ONE, CONVOYS, TRUCKS, FULL OF HUMANITARIAN AID THAT ENTERED THE ENCLAVE FROM THE NORTH, DIRECTLY TO THE CIVILIANS.

BY THE WAY, THOSE ARE BEING RAIDED BY HAMAS AS WE SPEAK, BUT IN TOWARD TO RELEASE THE PRESSURE OF THE GAZA STRIP IN THE NORTH, WE ARE CONTINUING TO DO THAT.

SECONDLY, THE GHF, WHICH TRIES FOR THIS DISTRIBUTION POINT TO RESTORE --TO DELIVER THE AID, DIRECTED TO THE CIVILIANS, THEY HAVE ALREADY DISTRIBUTED MORE THAN 1.

5 MILLION PACKAGES FOR FAMILIES.

AND THE THIRD METHOD, WHICH YOU DESCRIBE DIFFERENTLY THAN WHAT I WOULD DESCRIBE IT, IT IS WHAT IS TRYING TO ACHIEVE IN THE SOUTHERN PART OF GAZA STRIP IN THE FORMER CITY OF RAFAH WHERE A LOCAL WARLORD, HE IS A WARLORD, HE TOOK CONTROL OF ALL THIS AREA, AND WE HOPE THAT CIVILIANS, THAT WILL CHOOSE TO GO SOUTH TO THE FORM OF CITY OF RAFAH WILL RECEIVE ALL THE NECESSARY HUMANITARIAN AID AVAILABLE TO ACHIEVE.

THIS IS WHAT IS HAPPENING RIGHT NOW.

AND IT IS SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT THAN THE DESCRIPTION.

>> YES.

YOU KNOW, I'M RELYING ON THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN THERE.

YOU JUST SAID WARLORD, ARY AND HE'S GOING TO BE IN CHARGE OF IT.

YOU'VE WRITTEN SERIOUS PAPERS ABOUT THIS.

YOU SAID THERE IS A CONTRADICTION BETWEEN ISRAEL'S TWO CENTRAL GOALS, SECURING THE RELEASE OF THE HOSTAGES AND ELIMINATING HAMAS FIGHTING CAPABILITY.

CAN YOU --WHAT IS THE CONTRADICTION?

AND DO YOU THINK THAT NETANYAHU'S MAXIMALIST GOAL HE KEEPS SAYING, DESTROY, ELIMINATE, ALL THOSE MAXIMALIST WORDS ABOUT HAMAS, IS POSSIBLE TO ACHIEVE?

BECAUSE THE U. S. BELIEVES, THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION BELIEVE THAT HAMAS IS, YOU KNOW, THAT THE CAPABILITIES THAT YOU'RE TRYING TO END, YOU HAVE DONE IT LAST SUMMER.

WHAT IS THE -- WHAT IS THE POINT OF THIS CONTINUING WAR?

>> IF YOU ARE PRESENTING IT, LIKE SOMETIMES MY PRIME MINISTER SAID, ZERO SUM GAME, IT IS CONTRADICTION, FULL CONTRADICTION.

IF YOU SAY TO HAMAS THAT I --MY AIM IS EVENTUALLY ERADICATE YOU, OBLITERATE YOU FROM THE FACE OF THE EARTH, HE WILL NOT LET GO OF THE ONLY INSURANCES FOR ITS SURVIVAL, WHICH IS THE --WHICH ARE THE HOSTAGES.

IN ORDER TO SOMEHOW BALANCE IT ALL OR GET THOSE TWO CONTRADICTION OBJECTIVES, YOU MUST, FIRST OF ALL, REPLACE HAMAS AS RULING ENTITY BY A THIRD ELEMENT.

MAYBE ALONG THE LINES OF THE EGYPTIAN PROPOSAL, COMBINED WITH THE PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY AND SOME MANNER.

AND THAT IS THE ONLY WAY THAT HAMAS WILL BE ABLE OR ACCEPT TO RELEASE THE HOSTAGES.

WHAT WILL HAPPEN WITH HAMAS, HAMAS IS THE ENTITY THAT IS RESPONSIBLE FOR ALL THE MISERY THAT WE ARE SEEING RIGHT NOW, BY LAUNCHING THIS MASSIVE ATTACK ON OCTOBER 7.

MY ANSWER TO THOSE WHO ASK THIS QUESTION, THAT IT WILL BE A LONG ATTRITION WAR BENEATH THE LEVEL OF FULL SCALE WAR, LIKE WE HAVE DONE IN THE WEST BANK, IN THE SECOND INTIFADA AND IT WILL TAKE YEARS, BUT, FIRST OF ALL, WE MUST REPLACE IT AS A RULING ENTITY, RELEASE ALL THE HOSTAGES, DECLARE THE WAR ENDED, AND CONTINUE GRADUALLY ERODING ITS CAPABILITY UNTIL THE END, UNTIL WE HAVE FINALIZED AND ACHIEVED THIS MISSION.

>> I THINK YOU GUYS CALL THAT MOWING THE LAWN, THIS ENDLESS TRYING TO --THIS ATTRITION.

AND I ASK YOU THAT IN RELATION ALSO TO THE IRAN 12- DAY STRIKES BETWEEN ISRAEL, THE UNITED STATES AND IRAN.

THIS IS WHAT THE PENTAGON SPOKESMAN SAID ABOUT THE ASSESSMENT.

I'M GOING TO READ IT, WE DON'T HAVE THAT MUCH TIME.

HE SAID THAT, YOU KNOW, ALLIES AND INTELLIGENCE AROUND THE WORLD SHARE SENTIMENTS THAT THE DEGRADATION OF IRAN'S NUCLEAR PROGRAM ARE --IS PROBABLY ONE TO TWO YEARS.

THAT'S THE INITIAL ASSESSMENT.

NOW, THAT, I'M TELLING YOU, AND YOU KNOW, IS MUCH SHORTER THAN WHAT THE JCPOA AND THE IRAN NUCLEAR DEAL HAD GUERIN FEED.

THEY GUARANTEED A MUCH LONGER DEGRADATION OF THE ABILITIES.

SO MY QUESTION TO YOU IS, A, DO YOU THINK YOU'VE DONE WHAT YOU WANTED TO DO IN IRAN, AND, B, DO YOU THINK THERE TOO YOU'LL CONTINUE THIS MOWING THE LAWN, WAR OF ATTRITION EVERY TIME ANYTHING POPS UP?

HOW DO YOU THINK THIS IS GOING TO END?

>> FIRST OF ALL, MOVING OUT OF THE JCPOA WAS A MISTAKE.

I AGREE WITH YOU, IF WE WERE TO CONTINUE THE PATH OF THE JCPOA, WE WOULDN'T BE IN SUCH A CRUCIAL SITUATION LIKE WE WERE JUST BEFORE THE 12- DAYS WAR.

THE SITUATION WAS THAT IRAN WAS A THRESHOLD NUCLEAR STATE AND THERE WAS DRAMATIC ACHIEVEMENTS DONE IN IRAN AND THEY HAVE PROMOTED THEMSELVES IN THE THRESHOLD NUCLEAR STAGE TO A SITUATION WHERE THEY GAIN ADDED ADVANTAGE OVER ISRAEL CAPABILITY IN THE FUTURE.

THEY MIGHT HAVE GOT THIS ADVANTAGE.

SO ISRAELI HAD TO ACT.

EVENTUALLY WHAT HAS BEEN ACHIEVED RIGHT NOW, ACHIEVED, THAT IRAN IS NO LONGER A THRESHOLD NUCLEAR STATE.

AND DELAYING THAT FOR YEAR OR TWO YEAR ENABLES ISRAEL TO INTERVENE IN THE FUTURE IF THEY DECIDE DIFFERENTLY.

ALONG THIS PATH, THERE IS THE PATH OF PRESSURING FOR A NEW NUCLEAR DEAL, WHICH WE HOPE THAT THE PRESSURE THAT WE HAVE INFLICTED WILL HELP US IN ACHIEVING A BETTER DEAL THAN BEFORE.

>> TAMIR HAYMAN, THANK YOU VERY MUCH, INDEED, FOR JOINING US.

>> IT IS MY PLEASURE.

> >> TURNING NOW TO THE UNITED STATES, PRESIDENT TRUMP'S SWEEPING DOMESTIC POLICY BILL IS SIGNED INTO LAW, MILLIONS OF PEOPLE ON MEDICAID ARE SET TO LOSE THEIR HEALTH INSURANCE.

MICHEL MARTIN SPEAKS WITH THE GOVERNOR OF KENTUCKY ABOUT THE REAL LIFE EFFECT THIS COULD HAVE ON RURAL COMMUNITIES LIKE HIS OWN.

>> THANKS, CHRISTIANE.

GOVERNOR BESHEAR, THANK YOU FOR SPEAKING WITH US.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME ON.

>> SO, YOU -- LET'S GO RIGHT TO IT, YOU CALL THE PRESIDENT'S TAX AND SPENDING BILL, WHICH HE AND HIS REPUBLICAN ALLIES HAVE CALLED THE ONE BIG BEAUTIFUL BILL THE WORST LEGISLATION YOU'VE SEEN IN YOUR LIFETIME.

AS BRIEFLY AS YOU CAN, TELL US WHY.

>> THIS IS THE MOST DESTRUCTIVE BILL I'VE SEEN IN MY LIFETIME.

IN KENTUCKY, IT IS GOING TO KICK 200,000 PEOPLE OFF THEIR HEALTHCARE COVERAGE.

THAT'S GOING TO INCLUDE KIDS AND SENIORS, IT IS GOING TO INCLUDE PEOPLE WHO NEED CANCER TREATMENT AND WHO WILL LOSE THEIR LIVES WITHOUT THAT COVERAGE.

ON TOP OF THAT, IT IS GOING TO FIRE 20,000 HEALTHCARE WORKERS, FROM ALL AROUND KENTUCKY, AND IT MAY SHUTTER UP TO 35 RURAL HOSPITALS.

SO, WHETHER YOU'RE ON PRIVATE INSURANCE OR ON MEDICAID, IF YOU ARE A RURAL AMERICAN, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO DRIVE HOURS JUST TO SEE A DOCTOR.

AND THEN WHAT IT DOES TO OUR RURAL ECONOMIES IS GOING TO BE INCREDIBLY PAINFUL.

BECAUSE IF YOU REMOVE HUNDREDS OF DOCTORS AND NURSES AND ORDERLIES FROM THAT RURAL HOSPITAL THAT IS TYPICALLY THE SECOND LARGEST EMPLOYER IN THAT COMMUNITY, EVERYBODY FEELS THE PAIN.

THE COFFEE SHOP, THE RESTAURANT, THE BANK, THIS IS A DIRECT ATTACK ON RURAL AMERICA THAT IS GOING TO MAKE IT SO MUCH HARDER FOR STRUGGLING AMERICANS TO GET BY.

>> LET'S TALK ABOUT THE PATIENTS THEMSELVES.

ONE OF THE ARGUMENTS FOR THE BILL THAT SUPPORTERS KEEP INSISTING ON IS THAT IT WILL SHORE UP THE FINANCES OF MEDICAID IN PARTICULAR SO THAT IN PARTICULAR CHILDREN, IN PARTICULAR PEOPLE WHO ARE THE MOST VULNERABLE, PEOPLE WHO ARE DISABLED, THIS WILL STABILIZE THE FINANCES OF MEDICAID SO THAT THESE PEOPLE IN PARTICULAR WILL CONTINUE TO GET CARE.

YOU'RE SAYING THAT'S JUST NOT TRUE.

>> IT IS NOT.

BECAUSE IF IT WAS, THEY WOULD HAVE EXEMPTED THEM FROM LARGE PARTS OF THE BILL.

THE WAY THEY GET THEIR QUOTE, UNQUOTE SAVINGS IS BY INCREASING THE LEVEL OF PAPER WORK, MAKING YOU PROVE YOUR ELIGIBILITY, MULTIPLE EXTRA TIMES, WHEN THEY'RE ALREADY SO MANY CHECKS IN THERE AND SO WHAT HAPPENS WHEN A FAMILY HAS A CHILD WITH A SEVERE DISABILITY, THAT IS COVERED BY MEDICAID, DOESN'T CHECK A CERTAIN BOX ONCE OR TWICE A YEAR, THAT FAMILY CAN LOSE COVERAGE FOR UP TO SIX MONTHS.

IT IS MEAN.

IT IS CRUEL.

THINK ABOUT THAT SENIOR, BECAUSE 70% OF OUR LONG-TERM CARE COSTS IN KENTUCKY ARE COVERED BY MEDICAID.

THAT SENIOR WHO IS ALREADY GETTING SIGNIFICANT CARE, WHOSE FAMILY PROBABLY HAS TO FILL OUT THOSE FORMS, IF IT IS NOT DONE RIGHT, THAT PERSON LOSES THAT LONG-TERM CARE COVERAGE.

AND SO THAT FAMILY HAS TO TAKE THEM BACK INTO THEIR HOME, TRY TO COVER THOSE EXPENSES WHICH IS LIKELY IMPOSSIBLE, PROBABLY CAN'T GO TO WORK BECAUSE OF THE FULL TIME HELP THAT IS NEEDED, THIS IS THE DAMAGE IT IS GOING TO CAUSE TO PEOPLE'S LIFE AND THEY'RE GOING TO KNOW EXACTLY WHO DID IT TO THEM, PRESIDENT TRUMP AND THE CONGRESSIONAL REPUBLICANS.

>> TALK A LITTLE BIT, IF YOU WOULD, ABOUT THE IMPACT ON RURAL HOSPITALS AND THE FINANCING AND WHY YOU'RE SO CONVINCED THAT IT WILL HAVE SUCH A DEVASTATING EFFECT ON RURAL HOSPITALS IN PARTICULAR.

BECAUSE, AGAIN, THE ADMINISTRATION AND THE ALLIES SAY THAT THERE IS A FUND, SPECIFICALLY SET UP TO SUPPORT RURAL HOSPITALS.

TELL US WHY YOU SAY THAT YOU THINK THIS MANY HOSPITALS WILL CLOSE AND WHY IT WILL HAVE SUCH A SEVERE IMPACT.

>> THE WAY I KNOW THAT RURAL HOSPITALS ARE GOING TO GET HIT HARD, AND MANY ARE GOING TO HAVE TO CLOSE IS THAT THEY ARE NOT ONLY TELLING ME, THEY'RE TELLING THE COUNTRY, THE KENTUCKY HOSPITAL ASSOCIATION IS A PRETTY CONSERVATIVE GROUP.

BUT THEY HAVE BEEN OUT WITH THESE PROJECTIONS SAYING, PLEASE DO NOT DO THIS TO ONE OF THE FASTEST GROWING SECTORS OF THE ECONOMY, AND THEY HAVE BEEN VERY CLEAR ABOUT THE NUMBERS.

THIS IS OVER A TRILLION DOLLAR CUT TO THE HEALTHCARE INDUSTRY.

THAT'S A TRILLION DOLLARS OF REVENUE THAT SUPPORTS THESE RURAL HOSPITALS AND THERE IS A $50 BILLION FUND TO HELP RURAL HOSPITALS, THE REASON IT WON'T WORK IS MATH.

IT IS GROSSLY INSUFFICIENT.

AND WHEN YOU LOOK AT RURAL HOSPITALS, THE REASON THEY GET HIT MORE IS THAT THERE IS A LARGER MEDICAID POPULATION THAN OTHERS AND THERE ARE FEWER PEOPLE THAT MAY BE TRAVELING TO THEM.

BUT WHAT IT MEANS IS YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO DRIVE HOURS JUST TO SEE YOUR FAMILY PRACTITIONER, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO HAVE THE SAME SPECIALTIES.

THINK ABOUT OBGYNs.

40% OF ALL BIRTHS IN KENTUCKY ARE COVERED BY MEDICAID.

AND THAT'S AN AREA THAT HOSPITALS STRUGGLE ON THE FINANCES.

WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO SEE IS IN RURAL AMERICA, HAVING TO DRIVE HOURS JUST TO GET TO A BIG CITY, TO EVEN GIVE BIRTH, IT IS GOING TO HAVE MASSIVE IMPLICATIONS FOR OUR COUNTRY AND FOR URBAN AMERICA TOO.

BUT JUST --THIS IS A PUNCH IN THE FACE OF RURAL AMERICA AND MY STATE.

>> GOVERNOR, YOUR CONGRESSIONAL DELEGATION IS WEIGHTED TOWARD REPUBLICANS, YOUR DELEGATION WAS KIND OF SPLIT.

YOUR SENATORS SPLIT, ONE VOTED FOR THE BILL, ONE VOTED AGAINST THE BILL, RAND PAUL VOTED AGAINST THE BILL, MITCH McCONNELL, THE LONG TIME REPUBLICAN LEADER IN THE SENATE, VOTED FOR THE BILL.

IN THE HOUSE, THE ONE DEMOCRAT IN THE CONGRESSIONAL DELEGATION VOTED AGAINST IT ALONG WITH ONE REPUBLICAN, THOMAS MASSIE.

I'M CURIOUS WHAT YOU MAKE OF THAT.

WHY DO YOU THINK THEY SPLIT, WHICH THEY NORMALLY DON'T.

>> WELL, I'M GOING TO DO SOMETHING THAT PEOPLE PROBABLY DON'T EXPECT AND THAT'S TO GIVE THOMAS MASSIE AND RAND PAUL SOME CREDIT.

AND I'M WILLING TO DO THAT BECAUSE MY JOB IS TO BE THE BEST DEMOCRATIC GOVERNOR OF KENTUCKY AND THE BEST GOVERNOR OF KENTUCKY FOR THE PEOPLE.

RAND PAUL AND THOMAS MASSIE ARE JUST ABOUT THE ONLY TWO INDIVIDUALS, SAVE A COUPLE OTHERS, THAT WERE WILLING TO STAND UP TO THE PRESIDENT.

AND I'LL GIVE THEM CREDIT FOR STANDING UP ON FISCAL GROUNDS BECAUSE THIS IS A HUGELY FISCALLY IRRESPONSIBLE BILL, MAYBE ONE OF THE MOST FISCALLY IRRESPONSIBLE BILLS I'VE EVER SEEN, IT IS GOING TO ADD TRILLIONS TO THE NATIONAL DEBT AND IT IS GOING TO PUSH HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS OF NEW COSTS ON STATES, BLOWING UP OUR OTHERWISE BALANCED BUDGET.

WHAT I WON'T GIVE THEM CREDIT FOR IS THAT THEY ARE NOT FIGHTING THIS BILL BECAUSE IT HURTS PEOPLE.

AND IT DOES.

IT HURTS PEOPLE IN KICKING OFF THEIR HEALTHCARE, AND FIRING HEALTHCARE WORKERS AND CLOSING RURAL HOSPITALS, BUT THE CUTS TO SNAP ALSO MEAN THAT SENIORS AND CHILDREN ARE GOING TO GO HUNGRY AT NIGHT, GOING TO WAKE UP WITH HUNGER PAINS AND IN MY FAITH, THE MIRACLE OF THE FISHES AND THE LOAFS IS THE ONLY MIRACLE IN THE ONLY BOOK OF THE GOSPEL.

IN A COUNTRY THAT GROWS PLENTY OF FOOD, ENOUGH FOR EVERYONE, NOBODY SHOULD STARVE.

>> WELL, SNAP IS FOOD ASSISTANCE FOR PEOPLE WHO AREN'T AWARE OF IT.

USED TO BE CALLED FOOD STAMPS, NOW CALLED SNAP.

TO THE ISSUE OF THE DEFICIT, THE CONGRESSIONAL BUDGET OFFICE IS SCORING SAYING THE SENATE BILL, THE ONE THAT WAS ADOPTED, ADDS EVEN MORE TO THE DEFICIT THAN THE HOUSE BILL WOULD HAVE.

>> WHAT IS AMAZING TO ME ON THAT IS THAT THESE SENATE REPUBLICANS JUST AREN'T TELLING PEOPLE THE TRUTH.

THEY'RE TELLING PEOPLE THAT THOSE NUMBERS ARE WRONG.

AND WHILE THE CONGRESSIONAL BUDGET OFFICE WAS CREATED WAS TO HAVE A NONPARTISAN GROUP THAT WOULD TELL YOU WHAT THINGS COST AND GUESS WHO CREATED IT.

CONGRESS.

THE SAME SENATE AND THE SAME HOUSE IN PREVIOUS SESSIONS AND SO THIS IDEA THAT YOU CAN ARGUE THE NUMBERS IS JUST WRONG AND BLOWING SMOKE.

>> ONE OF THE ARGUMENTS THAT THEY MAKE IS THAT THIS BILL WILL SOMEHOW GENERATE ENOUGH ECONOMIC ACTIVITY THAT IT WILL MAKE UP FOR THE LOSS OF, I DON'T KNOW, SPENDING A GUESS, THAT'S THE ARGUMENT, THAT IT WILL GENERATE THIS EXPLOSION OF ECONOMIC ACTIVITY AND YOU ARE CONVINCED THAT'S WRONG.

>> THAT AIN'T GOING TO HAPPEN.

THIS BILL --THIS BILL --THEY CAUGHT A TRILLION DOLLARS OF REVENUE OUT OF ONE OF THE FASTEST GROWING INDUSTRIES IN AMERICA.

IF YOU CUT A TRILLION DOLLARS OUT OF THE ECONOMY, OUT OF HEALTHCARE, THEN YOU'RE NOT GOING TO GENERATE EXTRA DOLLARS OUT OF IT.

AND THEN ON TOP OF THAT, YOU HAVE A TARIFF POLICY THAT IS DESTRUCTIVE, THAT IS SLOWING OUR ECONOMY, WE'RE SEEING FEWER PROJECTS MOVE FORWARD.

AND WE'RE SEEING SMALL BUSINESSES LAY PEOPLE OFF.

HERE IS ANOTHER POINT ABOUT THIS BILL.

IT IS GOING TO HURT WORKER PRODUCTIVITY.

BECAUSE IF YOU ARE A WORKER IN RURAL AMERICA, THAT CAN CONCURRENTLY GO SEE A DOCTOR IN YOUR COMMUNITY IN THE MORNING AND NOW YOU HAVE TO DRIVE SEVERAL HOURS, YOU HAVE TO TAKE THE WHOLE DAY OFF OF WORK.

IF YOUR PARENT COMES BACK INTO YOUR HOME, YOU GOT TO GET THEM TO THEIR DOCTOR'S APPOINTMENT TWO HOURS AWAY, YOU TAKE ANOTHER DAY OFF WORK AND LET'S SAY YOU HAVE TWO KIDS, HOPEFULLY YOU CAN GET THEIR APPOINTMENT ON THE SAME DAY, YOU GOT TO TAKE YET ANOTHER DAY OFF WORK.

OR IF YOU LOSE YOUR COVERAGE, YOU GET SICK MORE OFTEN, AND YOU MISS MORE DAYS OF WORK.

THAT MAKES OUR COUNTRY AND OUR WORKFORCE LESS PRODUCTIVE.

>> I'M JUST CURIOUS WHY IF THIS IS SO OBVIOUS TO YOU, IT WASN'T AS OBVIOUS TO THE OTHER PEOPLE WHO REPRESENT YOUR STATE.

AND I'M JUST WONDERING WHY YOU THINK YOU SEE IT SO DIFFERENTLY.

>> WHAT I SEE ARE PEOPLE WHO LACK THE COURAGE TO DO THE RIGHT THING, AND HAVE ABDICATED THEIR OATH OF OFFICE.

THEY WERE ELECTED TO BE THE BEST SENATOR OR CONGRESSMAN FOR THEIR CONSTITUENTS.

NOT TO DO THE BIDDING OF THE PRESIDENT.

AND THEY'RE MORE CONCERNED WITH SEEING THE PRESIDENT SMILE AT THEM THAN WHETHER OR NOT THEY HAVE A RURAL HOSPITAL OPEN IN THEIR DISTRICT OR WHETHER PEOPLE ARE OR ARE NOT STARVING IN THEIR DISTRICT.

THIS WAS A TEST OF BASIC HUMANITY.

AND THOSE THAT VOTED FOR THIS BILL FAILED.

>> AGAIN, PRESUMABLY THESE ARE THE SAME PEOPLE WHO VOTED FOR PRESIDENT TRUMP.

AND HIS ARGUMENT IS THAT THIS IS WHAT THEY VOTED FOR -- >> I DON'T THINK ANYBODY VOTED TO LOSE THEIR JOB.

I DON'T THINK ANYBODY VOTED TO LOSE THEIR HEALTHCARE COVERAGE.

I DON'T THINK ANYBODY VOTED TO HAVE THEIR RURAL COMMUNITY AND ECONOMY HIT AND IMPACTED POTENTIALLY EVEN DESTROYED.

PRESIDENT TRUMP IS PRESIDENT BECAUSE HE CONVINCED THE LAST GROUP OF MOVEABLE VOTERS THAT HE WAS MORE FOCUSED ON HELPING THEM PAY THE BILLS AT THE END OF THE MONTH AND THAT THE VICE PRESIDENT WAS DISTRACTED ON A WHOLE LOT OF OTHER ISSUES.

BUT EVERYTHING IN HIS TERM IS MAKING IT SO MUCH HARDER.

SEEING THE DOCTOR IS GOING TO BE HARDER.

PAYING THE BILLS UNDER TARIFFS ARE GO TO BE HARDER.

AND PEOPLE ARE STARTING TO FEEL BETRAYED AND CERTAINLY IF YOU VOTED FOR PRESIDENT TRUMP AND YOU LOSE YOUR JOB BECAUSE OF THIS BILL, YOU ARE BEING BETRAYED.

>> EXCEPT THAT THE WAY THIS BILL IS STRUCTURED, YOU KNOW, GOVERNOR, IS THAT THE TAX CUTS COME IN SOONER AND THE SPENDING CUTS COME IN LATER.

AND IT WAS STRUCTURED THAT WAY.

THE TAX CUTS COME IN BEFORE THE MIDTERM ELECTIONS WHERE PRESUMABLY IF PEOPLE EXPERIENCE WHAT YOU SAY THEY WILL, THEY COULD HOLD PEOPLE ACCOUNTABLE FOR THEIR VOTES, BUT THE TAX CUTS COME IN BEFORE THE MIDTERMS AND MOST OF THE SPENDING CUTS COME IN IN THE OUT YEARS, AFTER THE MIDTERMS.

GIVEN THAT REALITY, HOW DO YOU PERSUADE PEOPLE THAT THIS IS WHAT YOU SAY IT IS?

>> YOU SEE THE PAIN AND YOU'LL SEE IT EARLIER THAN THEY THINK.

BECAUSE IF YOU ARE A BUSINESS AND YOU KNOW YOU'RE GOING TO LOSE A LOT OF REVENUE IN TWO TO THREE YEARS, YOU DON'T WAIT UNTIL THAT MOMENT AND FALL OFF THE CLIFF.

THEY'RE HAVING TO MAKE PLANS NOW ON WHAT LINES TO CUT, ON WHAT SERVICES TO PROVIDE, ON WHAT HOSPITALS MIGHT HAVE TO BE CLOSED.

THOSE THAT THE THOUGHT OF PUSHING THIS OFF WOULD PREVENT PEOPLE FROM SEEING IT, FIRST, THAT'S REALLY WRONG.

WE'RE GOING TO DO SOMETHING REALLY PAINFUL, BUT WE'RE GOING TO PUT IT UNTIL AFTER THE NEXT ELECTION SO YOU RE-ELECT US.

THAT'S WRONG.

THAT'S NOT WHAT PUBLIC SERVICE IS SUPPOSED TO BE ABOUT.

BUT THEY ALSO DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW THESE BUSINESSES WORK, WHEN THE DECISIONS ARE GOING TO HAVE TO BE MADE.

THESE HOSPITALS ARE GOING TO HAVE TO RIGHT SIZE THEIR BUDGETS BEFORE THE FULL CUT COMES.

>> SO, YOU SAID THAT YOU WERE ELECTED TO BE THE BEST GOVERNOR OF KENTUCKY, NOT THE BEST DEMOCRATIC GOVERNOR OF KENTUCKY.

BUT YOU ARE A DEMOCRAT AND, YOU KNOW, YOUR FORTUNES AREN'T ALWAYS TIED TO THE NATIONAL DEMOCRATIC PARTY, YOU'VE BEEN RE- ELECTED --YOU'VE BEEN ELECTED AND RE-ELECTED AGAIN IN YOUR STATE, WHICH DOES LEAN CONSERVATIVE.

BUT OVERALL, DO YOU THINK THAT THE DEMOCRATS HAVE MADE THE CASE THAT YOU ARE MAKING?

>> WELL, I THINK THE DESTRUCTIVENESS OF THIS BILL IS FACT.

SO, DEMOCRATS NEED TO BE OUT THERE TALKING ABOUT IT.

AND THE NEWS NEEDS TO BE OUT THERE TALKING ABOUT IT.

WHAT WE NEED IS FOR THE PEOPLE OF THE UNITED STATES TO UNDERSTAND WHAT IS SPECIFICALLY IN THE BILL AND WHAT THE CONGRESSIONAL BUDGET OFFICE SAYS WILL HAPPEN BECAUSE OF THE BILL.

IN PREVIOUS ADMINISTRATIONS, THAT WAS CONSIDERED FACT.

IT STILL IS.

AND SO I THINK THAT THERE IS NOT JUST DEMOCRATS, BUT ALL OF US THAT HAVE AN OBLIGATION FOR PEOPLE TO KNOW WHAT THIS BILL DOES, AND WHO DID IT TO US.

>> WELL, IN ADDITION TO THAT, THOUGH, THERE ARE PROVISIONS THAT ARE MEANT TO BE ATTRACTIVE TO LOWER INCOME PEOPLE OR MIDDLE INCOME PEOPLE, LIKE THE TAX ON TIPS.

THIS WAS ANOTHER ONE OF THE PRESIDENT'S CAMPAIGN PROMISES SAYING THAT HE WAS GOING TO ADD A NEW TAX AND ALSO HE'S PROMISING THAT, YOU KNOW, MOST SENIORS WON'T SEE TAXES ON THEIR SOCIAL SECURITY.

BUT I AM WONDERING WHETHER YOU THINK THAT THAT WOULD BE --THAT THOSE PROVISIONS WILL BE ENOUGH TO MAKE IT ATTRACTIVE TO PEOPLE, EVEN THOUGH YOU SAY IT WILL BE MORE HARMFUL THAN IT WILL BE BENEFICIAL.

>> IT WON'T BE ATTRACTIVE TO PEOPLE.

THIS IS WHY YOU DON'T PUT THIS MUCH STUFF IN ONE BILL, AND INCLUDING SOME PROVISIONS THAT APPEAR TO JUST BE BUYING OFF SOMEONE FOR A VOTE HERE OR A VOTE THERE, SENDING SOMETHING TO THEIR STATE.

THE PEOPLE YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THAT RELY ON TAXES AND TIPS ARE THE PEOPLE THAT LIVE ON THE MARGINS AND HOW THEY GET THEIR HEALTHCARE.

MANY ARE GETTING IT THROUGH THE STATE- RUN EXCHANGES, WHICH ARE GOING TO TAKE A BEATING AS WELL.

MANY OF THEM ARE THE WORKING POOR THAT ARE OTHERWISE COVERED ON MEDICAID OR THEY HAVE A FAMILY MEMBER AT HOME WHO ARE COVERED ON MEDICAID.

THEY ARE THE PEOPLE WORKING IN THAT RURAL RESTAURANT THAT NOW ARE GOING TO HAVE FEWER PEOPLE COMING IN BECAUSE SO MANY PEOPLE THAT HAVE AFFORDABLE INCOME HAVE LOST THEIR JOBS.

AND WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THE TAX CUTS, YEAH, TAX CUT WOULD BE REALLY NICE FOR A DOCTOR, IF THEY STILL HAD A JOB.

IF THEY LOSE THEIR JOB BECAUSE OF THIS BILL, THEY HAVE NO INCOME AND THERE IS NO TAX CUT.

>> SO, GOVERNOR, WHAT DO YOU SEE AS YOUR ROLE NOW?

WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO IN YOU GOT TO MANAGE THE FALLOUT, WHATEVER IT IS.

HOW ARE YOU GOING TO DO THAT?

>> BEST I CAN FOR MY PEOPLE.

I LOVE THE PEOPLE OF KENTUCKY.

AND IT IS MY JOB TO FIGHT FOR THEM REGARDLESS OF THEIR PARTY REGISTRATION, TO TRY TO MOVE US NOT TO THE RIGHT OR THE LEFT, BUT MOVE US FORWARD.

SO, I'M GOING TO -- >> WHAT DOES THAT LOOK LIKE?

>> I'M GOING TO LOOK FOR EVERY OPPORTUNITY TO HELP PEOPLE MAKE SURE THAT THEY CORRECTLY FILL OUT THOSE FORMS, TO SEE WHAT TYPE OF EXTRA SERVICES AND ADVICE THAT WE CAN GIVE THEM, BUT NO STATE, NOT ONE STATE IN THE COUNTRY, HAS A BUDGET WHERE THEY CAN SIMPLY BACK FILL THESE DOLLARS.

EVERYTHING WE'RE GOING TO DO WE'RE GOING TO DO OUR BEST, BUT THE PEOPLE OF AMERICA ARE GOING TO FEEL THE PAIN BECAUSE OF THE SIZE AND SCOPE OF THE DAMAGE OF THIS BIG UGLY BILL.

>> SO, BEFORE WE LET YOU GO, I KIND OF HATE THIS GAME THAT WE HAVE TO PLAY, YOU KNOW, WHERE YOU'RE GOING TO RUN FOR PRESIDENT, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN, BUT YOU HAVE TO BE THINKING ABOUT IT.

YOU HAVE TO BE THINKING ABOUT IF YOU FEEL THE SITUATION IS AS DIRE AS YOU SAY THAT IT IS, SO WOULD YOUED ED AT LEAST IF YOU'RE THINKING ABOUT IT.

>> IF YOU ASKED A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO IF I'M CONSIDERING THIS, I WOULD SAY NO.

MY FAMILY HAS BEEN THROUGH A LOT.

I LOVE THIS JOB AND IT IS MORE THAN ENOUGH TO BE ABLE TO SERVE THE PEOPLE OF YOUR STATE FOR EIGHT YEARS.

BUT I DO NOT WANT TO LEAVE MY KIDS A BROKEN COUNTRY.

SO THIS YEAR, AND NEXT YEAR, AND MY JOB AS GOVERNOR, I'M GOING TO BE WORKING TO CREATE JOBS AND TRY TO EXPAND HEALTHCARE WHEN I CAN WITH THIS BILL, TO BUILD SAFER ROADS AND BRIDGES AND IMPROVE OUR SCHOOLS S AND MAKE SURE EVERYBODY FEELS SAFE IN THEIR COMMUNITY.

WE'RE GOING TO BE PLAYING IN A LOT OF STATES WHERE THE REPUBLICAN GOVERNORS HAVE SAID NOTHING ABOUT THIS BIG UGLY BILL AND THE PEOPLE ARE SUFFERING.

AND THEN AFTER THAT, WHEN I SIT DOWN AND THINK ABOUT IT, MY QUESTION IS GOING TO BE, AM I A PERSON THAT CAN REPAIR WHAT IS BROKEN, AM I PERSON THAT CAN HEAL THIS COUNTRY, BECAUSE WE CAN'T GO ON WITH THE US VERSUS THE THEMES.

WE CAN'T GO ON DIVIDED WHEN OUR PLEDGE SAYS WE'LL KEEP OUR COUNTRY INDIVISIBLE.

IF I'M THAT CANDIDATE, I'LL THINK ABOUT IT.

IF SOMEONE ELSE IS, I'LL BE FULLY BEHIND THEM BECAUSE I CARE A LOT MORE ABOUT THIS COUNTRY AND ITS FUTURE, FOR EVERYBODY'S CHILDREN, THAN I DO ABOUT WHAT ROLE I MIGHT PLAY.

>> GOVERNOR ANDY BESHEAR OF KENTUCKY, THANK YOU FOR TALKING TO US ONCE AGAIN.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME AGAIN.

> >> THAT'S IT FOR OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT.

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ORG/AMANPOUR.

THANK YOU FOR WATCHING.

GOOD-BYE FROM LONDON.