breaking news New Jersey native and Wall Street Journal reporter Evan Gershkovich is free Gershkovich along with retired Marine Paul Whelan and American journalist Alsu Kurmasheva were freed as part of a massive and complicated prisoner swap that was coordinated between seven countries including the US and Russia and it included 24 adult prisoners and two children 16 of those prisoners were released by Russia in exchange for eight prisoners returned to Russia and that includes Russian operative Vadim Krasikov who was imprisoned in Germany after being convicted of killing a Chechen militant in a Berlin Park in broad daylight now this exchange is the largest prisoner swap since the Cold War President Biden addressed the nation earlier today calling the prisoner swap a feat of diplomacy this is an incredible relief for all the family members gathered here it's relief to the friends and colleagues all across the country who've been praying for this day for for a long time the deal that made this possible was a feat of diplomacy President Biden pointed out in his speech that the US aggressively sought the release of Russians who were wrongfully detained a deal that came too late to save the life of Russian opposition leader Alexei Navalny who died in prison but Gershkovich a Princeton native and Wall Street Journal reporter had been detained since March 29th 2023 he was imprisoned on charges of Espionage Russian prosecutors accused him of gathering information on behalf of the US Central Intelligence Agency but he is now free here to talk about Evan the prisoner swap and what went into these negotiations is former US ambassador to Russia during the Obama Administration Michael McFaul Michael it's so great to have you with us tonight this is obviously historic news it's the biggest prisoner swap that we've seen here in the US since the Cold War just put into perspective how big a deal is this well it may be the biggest prison swap in the history of US Russian or Soviet relations ever you just said since the Cold War this may be bigger than anything during the Cold War I can't think of off the top of my head something so complex involving so many different countries and so many different kinds of individuals being swapped right in in in past including in one time when I participated in one of these swaps when I worked at the White House in 2010 often times spy alleged spies for alleged spies uh this is not that this is some criminals this is some innocent Americans this is some innocent journalists this is some innocent Uh Russian opposition leaders that's very complex number two it involves multiple countries uh and number three the main guy that Vladimir Putin wanted is a killer he's an assassin this guy Krasikov in Germany just think about how difficult that it must have been to put together all those pieces I think this is a historic moment and our diplomats including diplomats and the other countries that work with them should be applauded loudly you just raised a lot of points that I want to get into namely uh to start seven countries involved in this um the US Russia Germany um Turkey some others Poland uh and Slovenia I believe but what from given your experience and having been part of swaps like this in the past what goes into those convers those conversations including the fact like you said there had to be exchanges of of convicted murderers uh for example in Germany well so a number of things are unique the first is the multiple countries that were involved that you just talked about I just I literally can't think of another case in history most certainly not when I was in the government that involves so many countries second the negotiations uh my guess is I'm just guessing we don't know the tick tock yet but when we learn the full body of what went on behind the scenes my guess is that multiple Americans were involved the president secretary blinkin our special negotiator for these kinds of things Roger Carstens is his name uh my guess is that the head of the CIA Bill Burns was probably involved given that bill has deeper connections and knowledge of Russia than anybody I know in the government so it wasn't just one person at a negotiating table it was multiple people uh that's different and then you have to remember there's the negotiations within these countries in 2010 when I was involved in the in the swap of spies and I should keep saying alleged spies right because some of them denied that they were who were released from Russia uh we had to negotiate within the United States government because those that are involved in in Catching spies and those that are involved in law enforcement they don't like up criminals uh in this way and I suspect particularly in Germany that inside the inter agency within the German government that was probably one of the most difficult negotiations of all Russia really presented no evidence at all in those hearings um they were convicted in a closed door process how much does that conviction now impact future journalists and the work that others want to do in that country kind of holding uh government accountable well I'm glad you're underscoring Evan was not a criminal Alsu was not a criminal these were journalists American journalists doing their job and I can't prove this but uh but I have uh benefited from their journalism I have many footnotes I'm a professor remember I have many footnotes to Evan gershkovich in my book my next uh forthcoming book because he was such a fantastic reporter and that's part of the reason that he was arrested because Putin wants to deter vantastic reporters people like Evan and Alsu who know the country well this is a is a a giant deterrent it's a scary deterrent um and and that is another thing that tragically he accomplished by arresting them that I think will make other journalists like them think twice before even working in Russia number one many journalists now Russians and with other uh countries work outside of Russia because of those dangers um and two it'll discourage especially the people that know Russia the best because those are the people that Putin is the most afraid of it's no accident that two of the best journalists who speak fluent Russian who did fantastic investigative reporting are two of those that were arrested and swapped today as much as this is hailed as a victory I just have to ask in the short time that we have left does this signal to other countries that detaining journalists wrongfully accusing imprisoning journalists or others leads to them being able to get their people out of prison from around the world really those are tough calls they're bad in stivs no doubt and having been part of a negotiation once uh the the upside versus downside of doing these swaps those are very hard decisions that ultimately in our country goes directly to the president of the United States I think in this case the payoff is better than the downside uh all these people are free now uh some very effective russan opposition leaders now are free are not going to die in jail like Alexei Navalny did but these are tough calls I think for countries like Russia my message is don't go to Russia uh you should not be an American businessman working in Putin's Russia today uh best to be avoided at this time like you said the upside Evan gershkovich coming back here to New Jersey to see his family all those others freed like you said Michael McFaul senior fellow at uh Stanford University thank you so much for the time today [Music]