GEOFF BENNETT: Dozens of immigration judges# across the country have been fired by the## Trump administration in recent months# with no explanation for their dismissals.

From coast to coast, nearly four dozen# judges have lost their positions as the## immigration court system faces a record backlog# of more than three million cases.

Many of those## dismissed had previously worked in immigrant# defense, prompting questions about whether## the firings are part of the administration's# broader hard-line approach to immigration.

We're joined now by one of those former judges,# Emmett Soper.

He served as a judge in Virginia.

Thank you for being with us.

EMMETT SOPER, Former Immigration# Judge: Thank you for havin.. GEOFF BENNETT: So let's start there.

You were# .. a career staffer, almost 20 years.# Do you believe your termination## was connected in any way to your# prior work defending immigrants?

EMMETT SOPER: I don't know exactly why I# was terminated.

I was terminated without## any warning.

The letter I received telling me that## I was terminated did not give# any reasons for my termination.

So I'm a little bit in the dark as to why# I was terminated.

I had been a Department## of Justice employee for a long time, and# I had also been an immigration judge for## a long time.

They fired me without# any warning nor any explanation.

GEOFF BENNETT: What does the wave# of firings mean for the backlog of## cases and for those immigrants who# are waiting for their day in court?

EMMETT SOPER: Well, the wave of# unlawful firings of immigration## judges is already exacerbating the# backlog at the immigration courts.

As judge after judge after judge gets fired# unlawfully, their cases -- and each judge## typically handles hundreds or thousands of# cases -- have to be redistributed to the## judges who remain on the courts.

As each judge# gets fired, those cases are redistributed,## the backlog gets longer, people have# to wait longer for their hearings,## and after their hearings, they have# to wait longer for their decisions.

GEOFF BENNETT: The Trump administration, in# the meantime, is approving military judges to## work as temporary immigration judges.# What does that shift signal to you?

EMMETT SOPER: It's hard to know# because the military judges,## to my understanding, are just getting started.

We will have to see how it plays out.## I have to assume that the military judges who# come into the immigration courts are going to## be people of integrity who try their best to do# the job of being an immigration judge.

But it's## a very difficult job.

Immigration# law is very difficult to pick up.

It's complicated.

You don't learn# it overnight.

When I started as## an immigration judge, I was told it would# take roughly two to three years to become## really fully comfortable in being a judge in# immigration court.

And that proved accurate.

This is not something that these military judges,## regardless of how hard they try, are# going to be able to pick up overnight.

GEOFF BENNETT: Do you believe the# administration sees veteran judges## like yourself as an obstacle to# their mass deportation effort?

EMMETT SOPER: They may.

What I can say# is that I always tried very hard to treat## everybody fairly and to resolve cases as# I thought was appropriate under the law.

I tried my best to block out all of the noise# and all of the really political interference that## has been going on really since the start of this# administration.

I think, as a veteran judge,## you're probably in a better position to do that# than, for example, a judge who has just started.

So it's a little bit hard to know what# this administration thinks of veteran## judges.

And I was one.

But they may see us# as less controllable than some other judges,## and this might be an issue for them.# Overall, though, it's really hard to say,## because we really don't know for the most part# why we were fired because we weren't told.

GEOFF BENNETT: What's fundamentally# different about what's happening## now compared to previous administrations?

EMMETT SOPER: I think that previous# administrations, the immigration## courts have always had their flaws.

Nobody# would argue that it's a perfect system.

But the leadership of the immigration# courts in previous administrations,## I think, were people of integrity who saw# the immigration courts as neutral arbiters,## as neutral decision-makers, and tried# their best to insulate the immigration## courts from politics and the policies of# whichever administration was in charge.

I think that that is out the window now.

I think# the current administration of the immigration## courts does not fundamentally see the immigration# courts as neutral decision-makers.

I think that## they see the immigration courts as a tool for this# administration to advance its policy objectives.

GEOFF BENNETT: You have said that,# as shocking as your firing was,## you felt a bit of relief because# of what you had witnessed toward## the end of your tenure with ICE arrests# happening right outside your courtroom.

What did you see and what was it like?

EMMETT SOPER: Well, it was unprecedented# and it was disturbing, frankly.

ICE earlier this year at the court where ICE# served, which is in the Washington, D.C., area,## began on a regular basis arresting people# who were showing up for their preliminary## hearings in their case.

These are people who# typically did not have criminal records.

These## are people who were not doing anything wrong.# They were trying to follow the law by showing## up for their immigration court hearings,# like they had been told they had to do.

In many of these cases, ICE was waiting for# the hearing to be over.

Then, when they left## the courtroom, they were immediately arrested.# And this wasn't just people showing up on their## own.

In some cases, these were people who# came as part of a family.

In some cases,## following the hearing, ICE would arrest,# let's say, the father and the family in## front of the mother and the family and their# children, who had all come to court together.

So, in other words, ICE, in the# lobbies of the immigration courts,## in some cases, were splitting up families.# Regardless of how you feel about the law,## and regardless of how you feel about# immigration policy, I think that it is## just impossible to defend that sort of# policy on a moral or an ethical basis.

This was happening on a regular# basis during the last few weeks## that I was at the immigration court,# and I found it extremely disturbing.

GEOFF BENNETT: Emmett Soper, thank you again# for your time this evening.

We appreciate it.

EMMETT SOPER: Thank you very much.