GARY: Next on Start Up, we head to Detroit, Michigan, to meet up with Ping Ho, the founder of Marrow, a restaurant and butcher shop dedicated to local sourcing and sustainability.

All of this and more is next on Start Up.

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PEIPEI: My business means so much more than just a business.

I'm passing along our culture, our languages to the future generations.

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♪ GARY: My name is Gary Bredow.

I'm a documentary filmmaker and an entrepreneur.

As the country faces significant challenges, small business owners are navigating their way through a changing global marketplace with strength and perseverance while continuing to push the economy forward.

We've set out for our 13th consecutive season talking to a wide range of diverse business owners to better understand how they learned to adapt, innovate, and even completely reinvent themselves.

This is Start Up.

♪ The farm-to-table movement has gained momentum in recent decades, emphasizing locally sourced food, sustainability, and ethical practices.

Butcher shops have adapted by partnering with local farms to offer high-quality, sustainably-raised meats, supporting local economies and enhancing food freshness.

This movement encourages consumers to appreciate the origins of their food and the craft of butchery.

Today, I'm heading to Detroit to meet up with Ping Ho, the founder of Marrow, a dynamic combination of a butcher shop and farm-to- table restaurant.

Ping's mission revolves around sustainability, quality, and forging a connection between production and dining.

I'm excited to learn how Marrow is redefining Detroit's culinary landscape.

♪ ♪ What is Marrow?

PING: Marrow is where we're at today, is a restaurant in Detroit, which is also a butcher shop.

I launched this in 2018, and the concept was really about just local sourcing and local food and working with farmers to bring ingredients in and around from Michigan and the region to the table.

GARY: How did you land on the name?

PING: Marrow, I was drawn to because it means "the essence of what is good."

And if any of you have had bone marrow, that really captures... GARY: Yeah.

PING: The goodness that's within the bones.

It's got lots of nutrients.

But what I was also interested in was that in the UK, marrow is also a vegetable.

It's a kind of squash.

GARY: Okay.

PING: So not just all meat-centric to begin with.

So I think the name captures quite a bit.

GARY: Tell me about the first time that it hit your mind, people call it "the a-ha moment."

PING: I did not grow up in the restaurant business.

I do love good food.

I grew up in Singapore, and food is our culture, right?

And so I was very much exposed to good food growing up in Asia.

Remembering the fond memories of going with my grandmother to the wet markets in Singapore.

And we would go shopping every- And she would always go and visit her favorite vendors.

So from the favorite fishmonger to the meat seller to the vegetable seller, because she knew them, and she knew that they would deliver the best quality product that she was shopping for.

And whatever she found that day then would land on our plate at night.

So it was all about just the immediacy of food and good food and ingredients.

And so when I moved to Detroit, and this was back in 2015, I wanted to get out of my corporate job, and getting into beverage was my first foray.

So I opened a wine bar in downtown Detroit.

GARY: Okay.

PING: And was inspired to open Marrow because of, first of all, back then in Detroit, that seemed to me like it was a bit more of a food desert.

GARY: Yeah.

PING: And there were only a couple of grocery stores that everyone shopped at.

And I thought, "We are surrounded by farms.

"Why not work closely with farmers and then have a "classic style butcher shop where local meats and good "quality meats can be sourced "directly from the farm, broken down, and then sold?"

So that was the- GARY: That's the concept.

PING: The concept of Marrow, a butcher shop that is linked to a restaurant.

Practicing zero waste, so whatever wasn't sold in the case, the restaurant could repurpose it, use it.

GARY: What are the main things that people don't know about the meat that they're consuming that they buy from the grocery store on a daily basis?

PING: Well, I think they don't- they may or may not know this, but a lot of the meat is processed in huge plants, where animals are fed through feed lots.

So mass feeding, mass rearing, and then process at huge volumes and quantities.

So we work with farmers that meet our criteria, meet a checklist of humane rearing of animals.

So from access to water, access to space, not over-crowding these animals, the way we feed them as well, access to good feed.

And also farmers that practice good stewardship of the land, not using excessive chemicals, or in fact, any chemicals, crop rotation.

So a lot of these practices, I think major corporations and commodity farmers do not practice.

Because its all about scale.

It's all about volume.

♪ GARY: For a rookie and a novice like myself, what makes a good cut of meat?

How do you identify a really good cut of meat?

KEVIN: It would be the marbling on it.

You can see, because now we're to the point where when we break down a whole animal, especially, we know if that animal is stressed, if that animal was fed well.

GARY: Really?

KEVIN: Yeah, you can just tell.

GARY: That's why the sourcing is so important.

KEVIN: Correct.

GARY: Because we don't want a stressed, unhealthy animal.

KEVIN: Exactly.

GARY: That's going to lead to poor quality meat.

KEVIN: Exactly.

When you're sourcing, you are looking for that.

GARY: Is there a visual identifier of a good quality?

KEVIN: Generally, more marbling, darker red meat.

GARY: Darker red.

KEVIN: Is where you want to go.

GARY: Okay.

Gotcha.

KEVIN: But if you ever see a cut of meat, especially beef, regardless of the finish, if you will, if it looks like it has dots in it, that animal is stressed before they passed away.

GARY: What do you love most about butchering, and specifically with Marrow?

KEVIN: I like the idea of making something from nothing.

Or you have this thing and you can make X amount of things from it.

That's always been fascinating to me.

That's what got me in the cooking period.

GARY: It's an art.

Yeah.

KEVIN: Yeah.

And then Marrow, in particular, first job in my recent memory where everybody has that mindset as far as getting the most in sustainability out of and then caring about where the animal came from.

Everyone's also pushing each other to be creative, to make new products of other than what we're making for wholesale or otherwise.

GARY: That's great to push each other creatively because it just makes a better overall product.

KEVIN: That's been my biggest joy from being at this place in particular.

The restaurant team and the butcher team, I think everyone genuinely enjoys being here, and they're interested in how can we push things further.

♪ GARY: What would you say was your biggest fear or apprehension with moving forward with this business once you identified what you wanted to do?

PING: I think fundraising and raising the capital is always one of the biggest challenges for any startup.

We all know the statistics of many restaurants don't make it beyond a certain number of years.

Right?

I took that business plan and I really talked to as many people as I could.

So that's how I also recruited my founding executive chef, my founding team.

I talked to a few people I had met in Detroit who were interested to put money in alternative investments.

You know foodies.

GARY: So private investors?

PING: Yeah, private investors.

Me... I was the biggest investor at Marrow at the beginning.

So having skin in the game... GARY: Helps.

PING: Helps.

And then designing the deal.

How much was I willing to give up of the company in order to raise X dollars?

I also went and found some loans at that time from the city of Detroit.

I approached CDFIs in Detroit.

So for example, Detroit Development Fund, Invest Detroit.

And this was 2017.

So they were really invested in helping the city grow.

GARY: That was a growth phase, big time.

PING: For sure, yeah.

To provide more amenities to Detroiters, to retail establishments, including restaurants.

I tapped into that momentum and got two loans from the city to help cover some of the funding gaps.

GARY: Tell me about the space that we're in today.

PING: The space, I signed a lease in 2017, and it took us about eight months to really get the space up and running.

When I picked the location, I think the West Village was still very much an up and coming neighborhood.

Beautiful houses surrounding it.

It was very neighborhoody.

There were not as many amenities as there are today.

But I felt that given our model of a local butcher shop, it would be appropriate to be in more of a neighborhood.

GARY: Talk about the benefits of lease over buy or buy over lease.

Were you looking to buy and had to settle on a lease?

PING: It's always enticing to be able to buy because then you can really control your destiny in more ways than one.

But we were not in a position at the time when I launched to even look at buying a building.

Imagine adding another six figures to a buildout that's already in the seven-figure range.

GARY: Wow.

PING: Yeah.

I did not want to add to my start up cost, so I was focused just on starting up the restaurant.

GARY: Did the buildout turn out exactly how you wanted it?

PING: Yes, and... Well, buildouts always take longer than expected.

It was my first restaurant, so learned some lessons.

Looking back, I think I would have very quickly, from day one, hired a restaurant equipment designer.

GARY: Ah-hah.

PING: We tried to do it ourselves.

We tried to just have the chef team just go, "Okay, we want this piece of equipment in that spot."

GARY: Sure.

PING: Right?

So some delays could have been avoided had we knew what team to really assemble from the very beginning.

♪ ♪ ♪ GARY: How difficult is it on a day-to-day to run and maintain a profitable restaurant?

PING: It's not easy.

GARY: It's not easy.

Great answer.

PING: It's not easy.

And it's not for the weak.

What I think is challenging is on the sales side, it's always contending with making sure there are enough butts in seats and always traffic.

Detroit is a seasonal town.

When it gets cold, quarter one is always very tough.

So quarter one is about hunkering down and bearing the losses, but making sure we catch up the end of the year.

So given its seasonality, given that we are also in a neighborhood that's still a destination.

So I talked about selecting this neighborhood West Village because of its neighborhood feel.

But we don't have the benefit of being in downtown, bustling downtown, being even bustling midtown.

GARY: It's a destination.

PING: It's a destination.

So now and then, we have to always reach out to bring people in to make sure people come back on a recurring basis, not just for special occasions, right?

♪ ♪ ♪ GARY: What makes it different, a place like this, having a place like this close by?

RYAN: Many different aspects.

It's been rated the number one butcher shop in the state of Michigan.

GARY: Wow.

RYAN: The fact that I can walk here is truly a privilege.

The care and the thought that goes into how the products are sourced, literally from grass to table, is something that you truly can't find anywhere else.

GARY: Nobody knows where anything comes from.

Everything is "I want it now."

There's no relationship to a lot of the retailers and the food that we buy or consume.

RYAN: It's the complete opposite of what you just described here at Marrow.

I want a relationship with not only the place that I buy the food, but ultimately the farmer that raises it.

GARY: Yep.

RYAN: Marrow has done classes over the years where you get to come and meet the farmer.

I've met some of the hog farmers, for example, here at Marrow, and then the opportunity to get to know the butcher staff.

I know a lot of the folks here on a first-name basis.

We even have brought a Christmas card to the Marrow team the last few years.

GARY: You're in deep, man.

RYAN: Yes.

It's truly a big part of our life.

♪ GARY: Get into marketing.

Let's talk about your website, about social media.

PING: I think marketing starts with having a strong identity and a strong brand, being able to tell that story.

"Who are you?

Why does it matter?

What's your value proposition?"

We also now have a meat business called Marrow Detroit Provisions.

When that expanded, aligning with the overall Marrow story was also a focus.

We utilize a lot of social media.

We have an account for both Marrow and Marrow Detroit Provisions that cross-pollinate an audience.

We try to post things that are both about the restaurant, but also about the meats, about where you can find our meat.

GARY: Tell me about your brand.

Tell me who you are and what this is.

PING: We like to say "All appetite's welcome," even though we focus on meat.

So I think there's a certain irreverence about our style as well in that we don't try to take ourselves too seriously.

But that said, I think the brand looks very polished and tight in terms of quality.

We want to convey quality and excellence as well.

GARY: Sure.

PING: I like to say the brand should be experienced in various forms.

So you can come and buy some meat at the butcher shop.

You can come and dine at our restaurant and enjoy a meal that is not a steakhouse meal.

So something that's a bit more eclectic, has some global influences, is chef-driven.

We always feature a tasting menu that you can purchase for a fixed rate, and you get multiple dishes that's always curated, and it changes every month.

There's a new tasting menu that you can sample.

GARY: It gives people another reason to come back and try the latest.

PING: It's interesting.

It keeps the food interesting, but then there are also a la carte options.

The Marrow Burger is one of our signature items that we're also selling in grocery stores right now.

It's a blend of bacon and ground beef that you can smash it in a smashed burger style and enjoy at the restaurant for lunch or dinner.

So there's some casual options that we offer at the flagship, as well as that more elevated cuisine through the chef's tasting menu.

♪ GARY: What is in the Eastern Market?

What are we going to see?

PING: So we're going to go check out my new building that Marrow in the Market will be.

So it is an almost 14,000 square foot old warehouse.

So we're building a state- of-the-art USDA facility for Marrow Detroit Provisions, the meat business.

And then we're going to have a second restaurant, Marrow in the Market, with two bars and private dining space.

GARY: Are you excited?

Does it create a level of stress inside you?

What is the real feeling behind that new spot?

PING: It's a huge project.

GARY: Okay.

So there's an element of stress.

PING: Element of stress.

We've been working on it for a number of years.

GARY: Okay.

PING: It took a while to get up and running, So from permitting to tax abatement applications.

So we had to do a redesign of the facility a few times.

And then during that period, costs went up, right?

So it's been a long-term endeavor.

GARY: You're chasing it a little bit.

PING: Yeah.

♪ ♪ ♪ GARY: What is Brand Detroit?

JONATHAN: Brand Detroit is a venture fund, venture studio, and to some degree, a development company focused on building out companies in Detroit and specific consumer brands in Detroit.

GARY: Tell me about Ping Ho.

When did you first meet her and a little bit about your involvement with her?

JONATHAN: I got introduced to Ping, sat down with her, and immediately like, "Wow, this is a really cool person.

"Somehow, I'm going to work with this person somehow."

I keep a list of random ideas that I've come up with, and I texted her.

I'm like, "Hey, I want to make bacon in Detroit."

It's like, "Are you going to make your own bacon or do you need a partner to do that?"

I'm like, "I probably need a partner."

The more people we talked to them, the more people didn't trust the system and didn't trust the food they're getting through it or the health of that food that's coming through it.

We wanted to build a brand based on that trust, authenticity, and transparency so that people could be accountable to us on what they're eating.

GARY: What is this beautiful space that we're in that's currently looks like it's under some pretty intense renovation?

JONATHAN: This is a space that Ping and I, we scoured Eastern Market.

We wanted it somewhere that people could visit, that we could stand behind the brand in a place, and that it actually became an experience.

Eastern Market is one of the largest outdoor farmers markets, but it's also one of the largest active food districts or the largest active food district in the country.

There are still, there's a billion dollar meat processor over there, and there's a multi-hundred million dollar meat processor over there, and there are large distributors based here.

What we're building here is a combined processing facility, butcher shop, bar, restaurant, event space, and also offices for the company.

GARY: When it comes to investing, yes, you invest in a company, you invest in a brand, in a vision, right?

But how much of it comes down to the person?

JONATHAN: All of it.

GARY: All of it.

JONATHAN: All of it.

At an early stage company, it's all about the people.

It's all about whether... Because things are always going to go wrong.

You need to know that you're with someone who has both the vision, but also the grit and the capacity to take it from point A to point B. Frankly, nothing will happen like that that isn't based on a person.

GARY: Yeah.

And Ping, obviously, exemplifies those characteristics.

JONATHAN: Ping is absolutely that person.

♪ GARY: If you today could go back to yourself before starting this business, before taking out any of the loans, seeking financing, any plan whatsoever, when you had the idea, what would you say to yourself then?

PING: I don't know.

I think not knowing much back then enabled me to be more brave to do this because it's not easy.

GARY: Of course.

Yeah.

PING: I was really driven by a passion to get into this business and not really knowing much of the ins and outs of it enabled me to do it.

So honestly, I think nothing would have changed.

GARY: Thank God for naivety because it gives you courage.

PING: Absolutely.

GARY: It absolutely does.

PING: I would say passion drives a lot, right?

And sometimes if you worry too much about the unknowns of any business, It really prevents one from doing it.

GARY: For somebody who may be interested in getting into the restaurant business right now, what would you say to them?

PING: Don't do it.

GARY: Don't do it.

Run.

PING: Well, I would say, do it with eyes wide open.

Talk to as many people as possible.

It's a fun business to be in, but also know what you're getting into.

I think financial backing is key.

It's such a cash-flowing business.

It's such a capital-intensive business.

So going in with some cushion and find partners.

Find partners who can take off some pressure financially, can take off some pressure operationally.

It's only fun when you're doing it with other people.

It's a people-centric industry.

GARY: Walking through the doors, you immediately get the sense that food is much more than just a meal at Marrow.

It's a chance to peek behind the curtain and see exactly where and how that meal you're about to eat was sourced, which, unfortunately, is a rare privilege in our current state of mass-produced, chemically drenched and over-processed food.

Marrow is different because Ping wants you to care about what you put in your body.

It doesn't escape me that times are tough, and it's not always easy or cost effective to only eat high-quality locally sourced food, but attaining knowledge and awareness about food is free.

And Ping is inviting you into the conversation.

She offers classes and workshops with Marrow chefs and butchers, all in an effort to educate and build a better food ecosystem.

And this isn't about trendy dishes or Instagramable moments.

It's about creating meaningful interactions around something that we all love, good food.

And every dish here seems to tell a story, paying homage to local farmers and the diverse flavors that make Michigan and the beautiful city of Detroit so unique.

Success in business isn't always just about profit margins.

It's about creating an experience and walking away just a little bit better than when you walked in.

For more information, visit our website and search episodes for Marrow.

Next time on Start Up, we head to Seattle, Washington, to meet up with Kaitlyn and Christina, the creators of Chunky Deli, a company that blends food storytelling with playful gifts.

Be sure to join us next time on Start Up.

Do you want to learn more about the show?

Or maybe nominate a business?

Visit us at StartUp-usa.com and connect with us on social media.

♪ ♪ We've got a long road ahead of us ♪ ♪ A long road ahead of us ♪ Got a long road ahead of us ♪ ♪ Before we pay our dues ♪ We've got a long GARY: You're not my father.

ANNOUNCER: Running a business isn't easy.

BambooHR supports your HR strategies by automating operational tasks, leaving you with more time to concentrate on what's most important to you and your business.

Learn more at BambooHR.com.

BambooHR, a proud supporter of Start Up.

ANNOUNCER: As a business owner, your time is valuable.

Bluehost's AI website builder allows you to type a description for a fully generated website with managed WordPress hosting and built-in security.

Learn more at bluehost.com.

Bluehost is a proud supporter of Start Up.

ADRIA: Sustainability, kindness, ingredient integrity, became the pillars of my company.

You should slay your look, not the planet.

More than 60% of sales in Amazon's store come from independent sellers like Adria at Ecoslay.

Amazon, a proud supporter of Start Up.

ANNOUNCER: Whether your business is starting up or scaling up, the Michigan Economic Development Corporation can connect you with services and support.

From finding employees to accessing state-wide resources and partnership opportunities.

Michigan, Pure Opportunity.

ANNOUNCER: If your career is on pause, you can earn a business or tech degree from Walsh College, with a flexible schedule for working professionals who want to expand their skills for a changing marketplace.

Learn more at WalshCollege.edu Walsh College is a proud supporter of Start Up.